RE: Forts in 42 (Full Version)

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Tarhunnas -> RE: Forts in 42 (7/20/2011 11:06:17 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Karri


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tarhunnas

One thing that could be changed with forts IMHO is the ability of units with high engineer support to dig in to level 1 after taking a hex. That makes it impossible for the opposing player to conduct swift counterattacks against advancing units and leads to players maximising engineer and sapper support in order to dig their way forward. I think it should not be possible to construct forts unless the hex was under your control at the beginning of the turn.



The first thing infantry does when it stops, is dig in. Can't recall how long it takes to build proper fortifications...a week is more than enough for foxholes and trenches.


Sure enough. However, one side isn't sitting still for a week letting the other side dig, even though the game uses turns of one week. It is more about game mechanics than real digging times.



Baelfiin -> RE: Forts in 42 (7/22/2011 3:18:39 AM)

Wouldnt higher level forts be more of a defensive depth within the hex not necesarily massive concrete bunkers and maginot like fortifications?

I'm sure that regular troops can dig multiple positions and improve the existing terrain features throught the hex not just in a single line of defense.



Panama -> RE: Forts in 42 (7/22/2011 3:59:38 AM)

I have numbers someplace on how long it took Soviets to build different kinds of positions. It's too late now. I'll get them tomorrow. But they were like moles.



Panama -> RE: Forts in 42 (7/22/2011 3:57:32 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Panama

I have numbers someplace on how long it took Soviets to build different kinds of positions. It's too late now. I'll get them tomorrow. But they were like moles.


Bah, can't find it in all the junk. In any event, I know they could dig in a 76mm Cannon position with overhead cover, 100 degree field of fire, crew and ammunition pits with overhead cover for both crew and ammunition in 68 man hours.

One person I like to quote: Von Mellenthin said "No artillery fire, no matter how violent and well concentrated, will wipe out a Russions position which has grown overnight"

Another thing. These 'fortifications' are fieldworks. AFAIK there are no concrete bunkers. These are the same fieldworks that have been built on battlefields for hundreds of years. Just modified to fit the current firepower. Same stuff built at Kursk in '43. They could possibly be a bit too strong in the game considering a turn is a week.



herwin -> RE: Forts in 42 (7/22/2011 6:10:24 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Panama


quote:

ORIGINAL: Panama

I have numbers someplace on how long it took Soviets to build different kinds of positions. It's too late now. I'll get them tomorrow. But they were like moles.


Bah, can't find it in all the junk. In any event, I know they could dig in a 76mm Cannon position with overhead cover, 100 degree field of fire, crew and ammunition pits with overhead cover for both crew and ammunition in 68 man hours.

One person I like to quote: Von Mellenthin said "No artillery fire, no matter how violent and well concentrated, will wipe out a Russions position which has grown overnight"

Another thing. These 'fortifications' are fieldworks. AFAIK there are no concrete bunkers. These are the same fieldworks that have been built on battlefields for hundreds of years. Just modified to fit the current firepower. Same stuff built at Kursk in '43. They could possibly be a bit too strong in the game considering a turn is a week.


In OCS, fieldworks are level 1 fortifications. In OCS Burma, Japanese troops can build them in a half week. What Japanese troops cannot build in that game are level 2+ fortifications--stuff that requires engineering supplies. Note that units in OCS Burma can be in one of two basic categories of formation--deployed for firepower or ployed for movement. It's a factor of 2 in combat power.



Panama -> RE: Forts in 42 (7/22/2011 8:16:59 PM)

What exactly are engineering supplies?

I guess it doesn't really matter. I have yet to see an East Front game that got everything right. Perhaps the scope is beyond anything anyone can come up with.



herwin -> RE: Forts in 42 (7/22/2011 9:00:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Panama

What exactly are engineering supplies?

I guess it doesn't really matter. I have yet to see an East Front game that got everything right. Perhaps the scope is beyond anything anyone can come up with.


The stuff needed to construct fortifications, minefields, and barriers. Typically concrete, steel, other construction materials, wire, munitions, etc. A level of fortification in OCS runs 1000 tons of material (two trainloads) for a 5-mile hex. A mobile division in heavy combat spent that much supply in five days to a week. An infantry division in a quiet sector spent that much supply in a month.



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