DaBigBabes V07 Erratta (Full Version)

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Jo van der Pluym -> DaBigBabes V07 Erratta (7/19/2011 10:28:02 PM)

Hi

In DaBigBabes v07 version exist the japanese 1st, 2nd and 5th Raiding Force. In some sources about the Japanese OOB of the 32nd Army on Okinawa listed the 3rd and 4th Japanese Commando Units. Are these mayby not the 3rd and 4th Raiding Force units? And can't they included in the next version?


There are still the following Dutch OOB errors.

1. The KNIL Marinier Brigade must be Mariniers Brigade and is not a KNIL unit. The men of this unit came for a part of Dutch volunteers from the whole world with the most from US/Canada/West Indies and the UK. And part from the Netherlands. This mean no KNIL Mariniers Squad but NE Marines Squad

2. The 1st KNIL (T) Brigade must be T Brigade and is also not a KNIL unit. It's raised in the Netherland from Dutch Volunteers.
This mean no KNIL Infantry Squad but NE Infantry Squad

3. I miss Korps Insuline a Dutch para-trained commando unit raised from volunteers from the Princess Irene brigade in 1942 on Ceylon. Raised 16 May 1942 as NSO renamed 01-08-1942 in Korps Insuline in Laksapatiya Colombo. In 1945 the strength is increased from about 1 company to more then 2 companies. From 1946 it's reinforced with the 1st Para Commando company and renamed in the Para-Commando Battle Group.

4. Some KNIL battalions who are raised.
KNIL I - Raised 01-06-1944 "Victoria Camp" Australia - 04-10-1945 Batavia
KNIL II - Raised 08-1945 Balikpapan - 16-10-1945 Batavia
KNIL III - ?
KNIL IV - Raised 09-1945 Singapore - 08-10-1945 Batavia
KNIL V - Raised 02-11-1945 Tjihapitkamp""
KNIL VI - Raised 15-04-1946 Medan



Kereguelen -> RE: DaBigBabes V07 Erratta (7/19/2011 11:29:35 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jo van der Pluym

Hi

In DaBigBabes v07 version exist the japanese 1st, 2nd and 5th Raiding Force. In some sources about the Japanese OOB of the 32nd Army on Okinawa listed the 3rd and 4th Japanese Commando Units. Are these mayby not the 3rd and 4th Raiding Force units? And can't they included in the next version?




Hi, 3rd and 4th Raiding Forces are missing in the stock OOB as well (because I did not find any reference for them in my sources). 1st, 2nd and 5th Raiding Forces were (kind of) commando units and given the vast differences in translations of Japanese unit designations it seems plausible that your 3rd and 4th Japanese Commando units would explain the missing numbers (not neccessarily, for various reasons, but possible). Please, could you name your source for the 32nd Army OOB (I would like to check this)!

Thanks!

K



Jo van der Pluym -> RE: DaBigBabes V07 Erratta (7/20/2011 4:54:12 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kereguelen

Hi, 3rd and 4th Raiding Forces are missing in the stock OOB as well (because I did not find any reference for them in my sources). 1st, 2nd and 5th Raiding Forces were (kind of) commando units and given the vast differences in translations of Japanese unit designations it seems plausible that your 3rd and 4th Japanese Commando units would explain the missing numbers (not neccessarily, for various reasons, but possible). Please, could you name your source for the 32nd Army OOB (I would like to check this)!

Thanks!

K


Hi Kereguelen

Here are 2 online links where in the Japanese 32nd Army OOB te 3rd and 4th commando units are listed.


http://www.history.army.mil/books/wwii/okinawa/appB.htm

http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USA/USA-P-Okinawa/USA-P-Okinawa-B.html



JeffroK -> RE: DaBigBabes V07 Erratta (7/20/2011 7:51:17 AM)

Jo & K,
Is Corps Insulinde a similar unit to Z Special or the Alamo Scouts?

In Commonwealth Divisions (Jo, happy to join the CW??)  by Malcolm A Bellis

Korps Insulinde
Formed in UK January 1942 from 154 personnel from princes Irene Bde for reinforcement of units in the DEI. Arrived in Colombo in March after japanese occupation of SEA. Retitled Netherlands Special Operations and posted to Sumpreme Allied Command South East Asia carrying out raids on Sumatra during 1943. Replaced 1943 by Anglo Dutch Country Section.

PS    I have some doubts about this book, so this quote can be taken with a grain of salt. It has Blackforce as including 3 Australian Infantry Bns?



JeffroK -> RE: DaBigBabes V07 Erratta (7/20/2011 8:10:17 AM)

In Japans Battle of Okinawa by T M Huber, the OOB for japanese 32nd Army doesnt mention any of these units.
Closest I get is:
(I notice the link at hyperwar is down, I saved the files as a pdf)

11th Shipping Group
H eadquarters ........................................................ 100
7th Shipping Engineer Branch Depot .......................... 600
23d Shipping Engineer Regiment (-) ........................... 850
26th Shipping Engineer Regiment (-).......................... 550
5th Sea Raiding Base Headquarters ........................... 42
1st Sea Raiding Squadron ..................................... 104
2d Sea Raiding Squadron ...................................... 104
3d Sea Raiding Squadron ...................................... 104
26th Sea Raiding Squadron .................................... 104
27th Sea Raiding Squadron .................................... 104
28th Sea Raiding Squadron .................................... 104
29th Sea Raiding Squadron .................................... 104
1st Sea Raiding Base Battalion ................................ 886
2d Sea Raiding Base Battalion ................................ 874
3d Sea Raiding Base Battalion ................................ 877
26th Sea Raiding Base Battalion .............................. 908
27th Sea Raiding Base Battalion .............................. 897
28th Sea Raiding Base Battalion .............................. 900
29th Sea Raiding Base Battalion .............................. 900

Pages 19/20 make these comments
It occurred to the 32d Army Staff, however, that these richly manned
service units should be reorganized for ground combat, given the anticipated
nature of the coming struggle. Between 13 and 20 February 1945, the 1st,
2d, 3d, 26th, 27th, 28th, and 29th Sea-Raiding Base Battalions were restructured
and became the 1st, 2d, 3d, 26th, 27th, 28th, and 29th Independent
Battalions. By February, these seven battalions' motorboat bases had al20
ready been built, and the base forces of 900 men each had little to do.
Therefore, only motorboat pilot and maintenance companies were left at
the bases, and the remaining 600 men per battalion were withdrawn for
use as light infantry battalions. Each independent battalion had three companies
of 150 to 180 men each, and their men were already trained and
furnished with rifles and grenades. To this was added only four light machine
guns and two heavy grenade launchers apiece. The seven independent
battalions, with about 4,500 troops altogether, were then distributed to the
24th and 62d Divisions and to the 44th IMB.



oldman45 -> RE: DaBigBabes V07 Erratta (7/20/2011 5:59:56 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jo van der Pluym

Hi


1. The KNIL Marinier Brigade must be Mariniers Brigade and is not a KNIL unit. The men of this unit came for a part of Dutch volunteers from the whole world with the most from US/Canada/West Indies and the UK. And part from the Netherlands. This mean no KNIL Mariniers Squad but NE Marines Squad

2. The 1st KNIL (T) Brigade must be T Brigade and is also not a KNIL unit. It's raised in the Netherland from Dutch Volunteers.
This mean no KNIL Infantry Squad but NE Infantry Squad

3. I miss Korps Insuline a Dutch para-trained commando unit raised from volunteers from the Princess Irene brigade in 1942 on Ceylon. Raised 16 May 1942 as NSO renamed 01-08-1942 in Korps Insuline in Laksapatiya Colombo. In 1945 the strength is increased from about 1 company to more then 2 companies. From 1946 it's reinforced with the 1st Para Commando company and renamed in the Para-Commando Battle Group.

4. Some KNIL battalions who are raised.
KNIL I - Raised 01-06-1944 "Victoria Camp" Australia - 04-10-1945 Batavia
KNIL II - Raised 08-1945 Balikpapan - 16-10-1945 Batavia
KNIL III - ?
KNIL IV - Raised 09-1945 Singapore - 08-10-1945 Batavia
KNIL V - Raised 02-11-1945 Tjihapitkamp""
KNIL VI - Raised 15-04-1946 Medan



What would be the TO&E of the Dutch commando's?

Also when you say NE marines and NE infantry is that more semantics or is there a difference in the TO&E's?



Jo van der Pluym -> RE: DaBigBabes V07 Erratta (7/20/2011 7:36:55 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffK

Jo & K,
Is Corps Insulinde a similar unit to Z Special or the Alamo Scouts?



Yes, you can also say it's like the British Commando's.
Only about company strength.

quote:


In Commonwealth Divisions (Jo, happy to join the CW??)  by Malcolm A Bellis

Korps Insulinde
Formed in UK January 1942 from 154 personnel from princes Irene Bde for reinforcement of units in the DEI. Arrived in Colombo in March after japanese occupation of SEA. Retitled Netherlands Special Operations and posted to Sumpreme Allied Command South East Asia carrying out raids on Sumatra during 1943. Replaced 1943 by Anglo Dutch Country Section.

PS    I have some doubts about this book, so this quote can be taken with a grain of salt. It has Blackforce as including 3 Australian Infantry Bns?



Look to my thread post.






Jo van der Pluym -> RE: DaBigBabes V07 Erratta (7/20/2011 7:43:36 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: oldman45


What would be the TO&E of the Dutch commando's?



It's strength with HQ and support was about 225 men. Th fighting strenth was about 154 men. 3 platoons?

quote:


Also when you say NE marines and NE infantry is that more semantics or is there a difference in the TO&E's?



That's more semantic because the men where from the Netherlands and other parts of the kingdom. And KNIL is specific men from the NEI.



Don Bowen -> RE: DaBigBabes V07 Erratta (7/20/2011 7:48:22 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffK

Jo & K,
Is Corps Insulinde a similar unit to Z Special or the Alamo Scouts?

In Commonwealth Divisions (Jo, happy to join the CW??)  by Malcolm A Bellis

Korps Insulinde
Formed in UK January 1942 from 154 personnel from princes Irene Bde for reinforcement of units in the DEI. Arrived in Colombo in March after japanese occupation of SEA. Retitled Netherlands Special Operations and posted to Sumpreme Allied Command South East Asia carrying out raids on Sumatra during 1943. Replaced 1943 by Anglo Dutch Country Section.

PS I have some doubts about this book, so this quote can be taken with a grain of salt. It has Blackforce as including 3 Australian Infantry Bns?



I believe Blackforce was considered to have three battalions, albeit not entirely infantry.
2/3 MG and 2/2 Pioneer from 7th Division, plus an adhoc infantry battalion (about 1000 men if memory serves) made up of escapes from Singapore and some replacemets that did not make it to Singapore.



oldman45 -> RE: DaBigBabes V07 Erratta (7/20/2011 9:35:44 PM)

Thanks Jo



JeffroK -> RE: DaBigBabes V07 Erratta (7/20/2011 9:36:05 PM)

But in a book selling itself as being OOB's this is very sloppy.
As you have identified the units, so could have Mr Bellis.




JWE -> RE: DaBigBabes V07 Erratta (7/22/2011 3:13:29 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jo van der Pluym
There are still the following Dutch OOB errors.

Yes, I know. [:(]
Did much work on the DEI scenario from your inputs and Harald Velemans'. The changes were very significant and have many new squad types and everything. The changes were too big in scope and unit sizes were scaled down too much to make it work in a regular Babes scenario. We could have made a few changes, but it's hard to know where to stop once you get started [;)]. We'll see what we can do to fix it up.



JeffroK -> RE: DaBigBabes V07 Erratta (7/22/2011 10:52:07 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jo van der Pluym


quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffK

Jo & K,
Is Corps Insulinde a similar unit to Z Special or the Alamo Scouts?



Yes, you can also say it's like the British Commando's.
Only about company strength.

quote:


In Commonwealth Divisions (Jo, happy to join the CW??)  by Malcolm A Bellis

Korps Insulinde
Formed in UK January 1942 from 154 personnel from princes Irene Bde for reinforcement of units in the DEI. Arrived in Colombo in March after japanese occupation of SEA. Retitled Netherlands Special Operations and posted to Sumpreme Allied Command South East Asia carrying out raids on Sumatra during 1943. Replaced 1943 by Anglo Dutch Country Section.

PS    I have some doubts about this book, so this quote can be taken with a grain of salt. It has Blackforce as including 3 Australian Infantry Bns?



Look to my thread post.





Sorry Jo,

I thought that some confirmation from maybe a different source would forward your suggestion.[:(]



Jo van der Pluym -> RE: DaBigBabes V07 Erratta (7/23/2011 10:52:03 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffK

Sorry Jo,

I thought that some confirmation from maybe a different source would forward your suggestion.[:(]



Hi JeffK

Here some Dutch links

http://www.soldatenvanoranje.com/
http://www.soldatenvanoranje.nl/insindox.htm

http://www.korpscommandotroepen.nl/index.php?l=nl&p=65


http://www.go2war2.nl/artikel/545/Korps-Commando-Troepen-tijdens-Wo2.htm



Weidi72 -> RE: DaBigBabes V07 Erratta (8/22/2011 8:15:18 AM)

503 Para Rgt. has "USA Amph Sup Sq", not "US Para Squads" like in TOE.

The engineers in australian paraunits are only airmobile to bases. They won't jump.



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