What am I doing wrong? (Full Version)

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Ego_Bizarro -> What am I doing wrong? (7/20/2011 11:01:35 AM)

Heya guys,

first of, I really like this game. I like sticking to good gameplay (especially when you feel the love of the developers for the kind of game they're making) and modernizing it only where it's necessary.
That said, I unfortunately never got to play Panzer General or the likes, so this is pretty much a first-timer in this "genre".

Now, unfortunately, I seem to suck at this game -_-
I do think I've understood most of the gameplay mechanics, but still I have no idea how it is even possible to get a decisive victory and I even missed a marginal victory a few times.
So I guess I must be doing stuff wrong.
First thing, pushing all units in one direction altogether pretty much ensures the quick downfall of the next cities to conquer...but I guess that's not what Blitzkrieg is all about and there's not really time for that (actually, as much as I hate time limits normally, it's pretty clever in this game, because it forces you to push with a wide front).
Then, there are a few things that totally delay my getting forward, like e.g. bunkers. Is there any strategy to break these things?? Last game, no matter what I send against it, planes, arty, tanks, infantry, almost nothing seemed to hurt or even suppress it. Only thing I could do was using infantry, but with lots of losses and it took forever...
Second thing that keeps me in place are cities behind rivers. Now, I'm not sure I totally understood how to use those bridge pioneers. Do you just put them in the river and then you can move units over? I cannot put a unit "over" the bridge pioneers standing in the river, right? :-/ Also, why is there the same disadvantage when standing on a bridge as when standing in a river?
Hmm, either way, I have no idea how people manage to get decisive victories in this game. Ah, I played on the middle difficulty, do lower difficulty levels give you more time or what exactly is different between the levels?

Any good advice and strategies are welcome, thanks :)



terje439 -> RE: What am I doing wrong? (7/20/2011 11:28:42 AM)

Ok let me take this post apart a little and reply on each question;

First thing, pushing all units in one direction altogether pretty much ensures the quick downfall of the next cities to conquer...but I guess that's not what Blitzkrieg is all about and there's not really time for that (actually, as much as I hate time limits normally, it's pretty clever in this game, because it forces you to push with a wide front).

I tend to advance on 2 or 3 lines depending on the map. I will split my forces somewhat equally and push on. If one line of advance falls faster than the others, those units will be switched elsewhere.

Then, there are a few things that totally delay my getting forward, like e.g. bunkers. Is there any strategy to break these things??

Strategic bombers to supress them, move arty from range 4 to range 3 and shoot at it, then attack with pioneers. I stop my arty at range 4 as that means the bunker will not be able to shoot it before I attack.

Now, I'm not sure I totally understood how to use those bridge pioneers. Do you just put them in the river and then you can move units over?

Yes that is the way to use them, you move them onto the river, and they create a pontoon bridge that is removed again when the bridge engineer moves away from the river. So the smart thing to do is to prepare one turn ahead. Move tanks etc to the hexes around the bridge engineer, the following turn advance the bridge engineer onto the river and let the tanks pour across.

I cannot put a unit "over" the bridge pioneers standing in the river, right?

Also correct. You cannot have two ground units occupying the same hex.

Also, why is there the same disadvantage when standing on a bridge as when standing in a river?

The way I chose to understand it is that your unit is in a cramped place allowing no cover and no chance to manouver, aka sitting ducks.

do lower difficulty levels give you more time or what exactly is different between the levels?

It does several things. On the lowest level (not advisable to play tbh) the enemy units are at strength 5. Every difficulty level decreases the ammount of prestige YOU gain and increases the ammount of prestige the AI gets.

Second thing that keeps me in place are cities behind rivers.

Not a question per ce, but I will give some advice here as well. I will usually fly in the strategic bomber first, then fire with arty, and if I must attack from the river, I will use pioneers. The reason for this is that they ignore the enemy entrenchment level. The strategic bomber will supress the enemy as will the arty, so even if the enemy unit is left with 10 strength, their actual strength for that turn is maybe as low as 3 due to supression.


Hope this helps a little bit at least.

Terje



Lord Zimoa -> RE: What am I doing wrong? (7/20/2011 11:31:42 AM)

Key words are combined arms and mass attacks. Using the right units against your opposing units is critical in this game.

Rivers, use and place Bridge Pioneers on river hexes, preferable unopposed and your other units can "hop" over any river more easily, or wait until winter when rivers are frozen over to cross. Remember units standing on river hexes get a severe penalty. Bridge Pioneers are less vulnerable but still can use some support by artillery or airforce.

So they can function as a bridgehead for your other units to cross, they will not hold out long, but normally just long enough.

Forts, use the heaviest artillery you can find to bomb and suppress them prior to attack, use strategic bombers, try and keep the suppressed all the time, use Engineers in combination with heavy infantry to first surround and than mass attack them. Engineers are immune to entrenchment and have a slight bonus against forts. Heavy infantry are good against hard targets.

Have fun!



Locarnus -> RE: What am I doing wrong? (7/20/2011 11:38:51 AM)

Create independent "corps", formations that can operate on their own.

About 3 of those corps should be sufficient in the beginning.

At the beginning each corps consists of 2-3 infantry, 1artillery, 1 tank, 1recon
The artillery is very important, you can leave out the tank, but not the artillery

Also you have an air arm to max pressure where needed. Additional tanks are also used to create pressure points.

The order is then:
scout with the recon unit, put artillery one hex away from striking position (it can travel this distance unmounted the next turn before firing), infantry at a distance where it can walk to the battle like art, use your tank and recon to shield your units while they arrive mounted

Then soften the enemy with art and use appropriate units to surround the enemy (each surrounding unit decreases the power of the attacker). Then attack the suppressed, surrounded unit. If enemy art or aa is present use your fast tank and recon to destroy it, possibly supported by air/art first.



Josh -> RE: What am I doing wrong? (7/20/2011 11:43:17 AM)

Can't add much to that Terje, spot on. Just my 2 cts worth of gameexperience so far, and as it has been ages since I last played PG I sure have gotten a bit (well maybe not a bit, a lot... ) rusty with the gameplay finesses.
First of all, combined arms rule, so do Strategic Bombers and Arty. First send in the Strategic Bombers as they suppres your enemy and are very resistant to any Flak, then attack with 1-2 Arty that you (as Terje said) move from 4 to 3 hexes and fire away. Then finally your Inf, whatever is available really.
Oh, and bunkers *are* a tough nut to crack, but crack they will.

And another thing I seemed to have forgotten, in between the scenarios when you can buy new stuff and upgrade the old ones, first bring your depleted forces up to 10 then start buying new things (as many as your core slots) and only then bring your elite forces up to 11-12-13 or higher. Because if you bring your elite forces up to 11-12-13 or higher that will be a lot of expended Prestige, so you may not be able to buy new core units. Remember any unit not bought can't get any experience either. So first buy all core units, then upgrade.

And it's a lot of fun, I find that really remarkable, this game hit the right spot. I mean it's not in the same class as Advanced Tactics Gold or War in the East, but fun nonetheless. [&o]



Ego_Bizarro -> RE: What am I doing wrong? (7/20/2011 11:58:18 AM)

Wow, you guys even do Blitzkrieg fast answers xD

Thanks for all the advice for now. Some I have already figured out myself, of course, but some things I didn't know...especially I haven't really used strategic bombers for now...and yeah, I upgraded all my elite units and thought, oops, no more prestige for new units -_-
I'll be sure to keep these things in mind on my next game :)

Ah, btw. what exactly is the difference between strategic and tactical bombers?



terje439 -> RE: What am I doing wrong? (7/20/2011 12:43:09 PM)

Tactical bombers - the most famous one here would be the Stuka. They do well against ground targets, killing alot of enemy troops by dive bombing and/or strafing attacks. Due to low level attacks they are easy prey for air defences.

Strategic bombers - the most famous one here would be the B17. They do not kill that many enemy units, but they will supress alot of them, keeping them supressed for the rest of your turn. Due to high level attacks they are less likely to take damage from air defences. These guys are often your best anti-navy units as well. These guys also have some other important things going for them;
-they will reduce ammo and fuel of the targeted unit
-they can neutralize enemy cities and airfields so that no units can be built there, nor can planes refuel there. To fix the neutralization, an infantery unit needs to occupy the city/af
-they reduce enemy prestige if used to bomb target cities (those cities with a gold circle)

Imo more than 2 level bombers is a waste, while I will keep some 4 or 5 tactical bombers.

Terje



Ego_Bizarro -> RE: What am I doing wrong? (7/20/2011 12:51:08 PM)

Ah, ok, thanks :)
Hm, does the prestige destroying only work on cities which are empty or also when an enemy unit is sitting on it?
And you said they suppress enemy units "for the rest of the turn" - even after I attacked the unit once? Cuz when suppressing with arty, the enemy unit is only suppressed until I attacked it once.



terje439 -> RE: What am I doing wrong? (7/20/2011 1:26:30 PM)

Yup the prestige loss should take place even if the city is defended from what I understand.
And yes, that is the beauty of the level bomber, they keep the enemy supressed for the rest of your turn [:)]

Terje



Obsolete -> RE: What am I doing wrong? (7/20/2011 5:43:54 PM)

quote:

And yes, that is the beauty of the level bomber, they keep the enemy supressed for the rest of your turn


Are  you sure on that? I remember they were modified a while back to only last for the duration of one attack, but perhaps it's been reverted back to the original rule-set again.



Rudankort -> RE: What am I doing wrong? (7/20/2011 5:48:50 PM)

Any long-term suppression disappears after one hand-to-hand attack. The game does not keep track of what suppression was caused by what unit - it is accumulated as a single value. And after assault it is lost.



terje439 -> RE: What am I doing wrong? (7/20/2011 7:43:50 PM)

Ah, so the level bomber got nerfed somewhat. Oh well...



Rudankort -> RE: What am I doing wrong? (7/20/2011 7:48:07 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: terje439

Ah, so the level bomber got nerfed somewhat. Oh well...


Well, if you compare their attack ratings with the ones in PG, they might not be so nerfed down, after all. ;)

There was a video AAR on Slitherine forum about playing Low COuntries on Manstein difficulty level. I think, it is a pretty good illustration of using strategic bombers.

http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=26173



Longasc -> RE: What am I doing wrong? (7/20/2011 10:24:36 PM)

They are indeed rather buffed than nerfed:

* they can survive fighter attacks, take little damage and even damage the attackers
* very resilient to flak, unlike Stukas
* stay effective even at low strength, unlike Stukas

Stukas are very cheap to buy and repair. But you only get the Ju87B and R early on, in Panzer General you quickly got the strong "D". Stukas are in general significantly weaker compared to the Ju88 in Panzer Corps, in fact you even see in the AAR video that Kerensky attacks enemy tanks with Ju88 level bombers.



Ego_Bizarro -> RE: What am I doing wrong? (7/20/2011 11:55:35 PM)

Nice videos :)
I have actually improved since yesterday. Can't say I'm a pro with sure decisive victories, but yeah, I am improving ^^
A few more questions:
- Do you even bother reinforcing non-core units? I mean, considering you won't have them in the following missions, it's rather wasted prestige, isn't it?
- I often have these situations where e.g. I can attack and the predicted outcome would be something like "you kill 3, enemy kills 4". Do you attack at odds like that or do you always wait for a match in which the outcome is practically no losses on your side?
- Do you always try to capture all cities (even the non-objective ones) or is the prestige gained not worth the losses you often have to take a city?

Thanks and good night :)



Razz1 -> RE: What am I doing wrong? (7/21/2011 3:04:51 AM)

1) Your choice
2) Your choice
3) Your choice. Flags = 50 and Primary objectives = 100

This is covered in the manual.



Ego_Bizarro -> RE: What am I doing wrong? (7/21/2011 10:50:53 AM)

well, yeah, I guess everything's my choice ;) I was just curious how people who really rock this game choose :)



Josh -> RE: What am I doing wrong? (7/21/2011 1:44:20 PM)

I certainly don't rock LOL but here are my two cents.

1) I reinforce non-core units only in the early turns of a scenario (non-elite so still pretty cheap) because you don't know yet what your up against. In the second part of the scenario I don't reinforce them anymore, just park them where an enemy counterattack might occur.

2) I tend to not attack if there are no follow-up attacks if the odds are 3 losses against 4 kills. The enemy will reinforce their unit while yours is unavailable for the next turn attack. Unless it's against enemy Arty and Flak, I hate them. [:D]

3) yep I conquer them all because I'm a megalomaniac [:)] besides taking other objectives gives you extra prestige and experience.



Ego_Bizarro -> RE: What am I doing wrong? (7/21/2011 2:55:37 PM)

Thanks :)

One more thing just caught my attention (quite late, I admit -_-):
It seems that "upgrading" a unit is not at all cheaper than just buying a new one, am I seeing that right? So the only reason to upgrade would be if all core slots are already filled, eh?



Josh -> RE: What am I doing wrong? (7/21/2011 5:30:00 PM)

Upgrading on the same tech level is cheaper, so PzKpfw IIIe to IIIf or something like that, is much much cheaper than upgrading that same Pz IIIe to a Pz IVe. Same with planes, an upgrade with a Stuka to an improved Stuka is much cheaper than upgrading that Stuka to a Messerschmitt Me110. So question is; how long will you hold on to your precious PzIII? Probably the moment you see a T-34, you'll be more than willing to upgrade to a PzIV-G (or whatever) but that's gonna cost you.



Ego_Bizarro -> RE: What am I doing wrong? (7/21/2011 6:17:42 PM)

Hmm, you sure? It looks to me like upgrading e.g. to a Panzer IVD costs exactly the same as buying a wholly new Panzer IVD O_o



berndn -> RE: What am I doing wrong? (7/21/2011 7:02:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Josh

...
And another thing I seemed to have forgotten, in between the scenarios when you can buy new stuff and upgrade the old ones, first bring your depleted forces up to 10 then start buying new things (as many as your core slots) and only then bring your elite forces up to 11-12-13 or higher. Because if you bring your elite forces up to 11-12-13 or higher that will be a lot of expended Prestige, so you may not be able to buy new core units. Remember any unit not bought can't get any experience either. So first buy all core units, then upgrade.

And it's a lot of fun, I find that really remarkable, this game hit the right spot. I mean it's not in the same class as Advanced Tactics Gold or War in the East, but fun nonetheless. [&o]


Arggggghhhh. I was so happy to have 'elite' troops that I forget this! Thanks lot :)



Ego_Bizarro -> RE: What am I doing wrong? (7/21/2011 7:28:00 PM)

@Josh: Ah, nevermind what I said. I didn't really upgrade to the same model, I got it now ^^



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