RE: What to do with them? (Full Version)

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soldier1 -> RE: What to do with them? (7/25/2011 2:04:20 AM)

I definitely vote for a price reduction in the towed AT class. For France and Russia their cheapest lowest calibre AT gun (which is virtually worthless anyway) costs 50 to 70 dollars more than a troop, add a transport and your well into tank price range. i think they were probably relatively cheap to produce in real life too.



Razz1 -> RE: What to do with them? (7/25/2011 2:22:19 AM)

I think they were raised in cost because the AI would spam them.

We have to be careful about that.



soldier1 -> RE: What to do with them? (7/25/2011 2:41:35 AM)

I cant comment on the AI's buying routines but as someone who plays online and hotseat, there not worth it as a class while there are cheaper more versatile options around. I couldn't justify spending so much on something that is essentially a stop gap measure and would very likely get trapped and destroyed once engaged.



Razz1 -> RE: What to do with them? (7/25/2011 3:53:23 AM)

It depends... Sometime someone will make a defensive MP map, where one sides only defends.

I haven't had the time to do a defensive only map.

In that case buying AT with your limited prestige probably is a good thing.



jomni -> RE: What to do with them? (7/25/2011 4:33:06 AM)

I love to use recon but they die so easily.



John Woods -> RE: What to do with them? (7/26/2011 7:11:18 AM)

Hi,

I wanted to give some of my AA a low attack value versus soft targets. Followed the directions to modify passive attack value by deleting "-". Did not work. The targeting reticule is red on the ground target but nothing happens when I click to attack. Air attacks still work fine. Anything else that needs to be changed?

JW 



Rudankort -> RE: What to do with them? (7/26/2011 9:49:25 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: John Woods
I wanted to give some of my AA a low attack value versus soft targets. Followed the directions to modify passive attack value by deleting "-". Did not work. The targeting reticule is red on the ground target but nothing happens when I click to attack. Air attacks still work fine. Anything else that needs to be changed?


Changes in equipment file only apply to newly-created games. Old saves are not affected.



John Woods -> RE: What to do with them? (7/26/2011 10:45:12 AM)

It was a new campaign - tried it twice. Also tried it with stand alone scenarios.

JW



Rudankort -> RE: What to do with them? (7/26/2011 10:48:36 AM)

If it is a new campaign, the only possible explanation is that the file was not saved properly. The game has nowhere else to extract old values from. ;) Program Files folder often has restrictions related to modifying the files inside, this could cause the problem you are experiencing.



John Woods -> RE: What to do with them? (7/26/2011 11:21:41 AM)

Took an unmodified equipment file.
Opened in notepad - used excel before
Changed soft attack value 2 cm Flakvierling 38 from -6 to 6
Changed spotting range of SdKfz 232 8Rad to 4 as a test subject.
Changed Brückenpioniere movement to 3 as test also

Started Italy scenario
Soft attack value of 6 shows up in unit info screen. Still will not attack soft targets. Only air targets
Spotting range of 4 works.
Movement range of 3 for Brückenpioniere works.

Could it be linked to unit class?

Thanks

JW



Rudankort -> RE: What to do with them? (7/26/2011 11:42:05 AM)

Sorry, I misread your original description. Now I tested it myself, and you are right. Active ground attack ratings on AA units does not work. Put it on my TODO list to correct.



GaryChildress -> RE: What to do with them? (7/26/2011 12:02:31 PM)

I've been having some strange behavior in game when I try to give AT units a range of 1. For some reason when I do that I can't purchase anything but infantry as a result.

When I make the change to the equipment file and then run the game, when I go to the purchase screen I am only able to purchase new infantry units, all the other unit types are "grayed out". Very weird. I don't see the connection here, maybe it's some sort of hardcode issue? [&:]



Rudankort -> RE: What to do with them? (7/26/2011 12:11:53 PM)

Most likely, the file was corrupted somehow, and the game is able to load only the first portion of it. I suggest to use Microsoft Excel to edit equipment table, then the changes you do in one cell will not affect any other cells, and you should not see problems like this one.



GrumpyMel -> RE: What to do with them? (7/26/2011 5:25:57 PM)

I don't use AA or AT much in the campaign but the other ones mentioned all get significant usage.

Strat Bombers - I'll actualy take these over a Stuka any day. They are far more survivable then the Stuka, don't need to refuel as often and the supression they do against fixed targets is great. They particularly make great bunker busters, as for some of those forts the only effective way to attack is to run them out of ammo and supress. Plus thier utility against naval units can be very valuable. The ability to fill multiple roles in different situations is really important when you have limited slot space (IMO).

Recon - Save your units from ambush, plus the multi-move and good speed allow these guys to exploit holes in the enemy line and get at high value targets like artillery or undefended objectives. I usualy only have one of these in my core, but it definately pays for it's slot.

AA - I really don't feel it's worth taking up a core slot with these. However, the scenerio's where I've been given one as an auxillary unit...they have often come in handy. The ability to fire at enemy aircraft without taking any return fire is usefull. It means you can soften up a tough enemy fighter before engaging with your own fighters and taking as much damage.

AT - I haven't really seen these as particular usefull. Even though I've played mostly offense so far, they haven't seemed particulary usefull for the A.I. on defense either. I wonder what sort of combat bonus they have in dense terrain (cities, forests, etc)? Historicaly that's where these weapons really prooved a threat to armor...where they could setup in ambush position and hit it at close range often from the side.



James Ward -> RE: What to do with them? (7/27/2011 9:08:48 PM)

I never buy towed AT guns. They are easily killed and don't do a lot of damage, even the 88's.
What I would suggest is make cut the soft attack in 1/2 for all of them, boost the hard attack by 1 or 2 across the board and give them a high initative so they fire first in almost every case. They are suppose to be the counter for armour but they seem to do more damage to infantry than tanks.



soldier1 -> RE: What to do with them? (7/28/2011 1:23:21 AM)

Actually they receive a penalty when they attack tanks and recon and are also penalized when infantry attacks them.



xriz -> RE: What to do with them? (7/28/2011 1:37:14 AM)

I do find self propelled AT units have some use even in the campaign, you don't want a bunch of them just one or two.

They run about 1/2 the cost of a tank with a similar hard attack (but less defense)so when needing a covering unit while bring up towed artillery or infantry on trucks for an attack, I use the SP-AT on the spear head or a flank, its a cheep unit to put in harms way; If its killed, at least it was cheaper then a tank I would have wanted to used instead or if damaged cheaper to fix back up right away.




James Ward -> RE: What to do with them? (7/28/2011 2:29:59 AM)

I like the SPAT just not the towed ones. They just don't seem to do well in any area.



James Ward -> RE: What to do with them? (7/28/2011 2:31:44 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: soldier1

Actually they receive a penalty when they attack tanks and recon and are also penalized when infantry attacks them.


I would think they should get a bonus when defending against armor and be even money when attacking armor. They should be penalized against infantry attacking or defending. Just MHO.



xriz -> RE: What to do with them? (7/28/2011 4:17:15 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: James Ward

I like the SPAT just not the towed ones. They just don't seem to do well in any area.


True, AT guns can only do good if backed by artillery other wise they are easily killed by infantry. There are only a couple of situations were buying them to cover a flank with out transport makes sense and their are still other alternatives if you have a couple of hundred prestige to spend.



gradenko2k -> RE: What to do with them? (7/28/2011 4:20:19 PM)

I haven't quite had the chance to try mucking around with Strat Bombers here just yet, but in PG they were supremely useful for heavily entrenched units and heavy tanks. Triggering rugged defense doesn't matter if the dug-in infantry unit has been suppressed to a single strength point, while a Sherman can easily brush aside a Tiger under the same B-17 bombardment.



James Ward -> RE: What to do with them? (7/28/2011 6:19:01 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: xriz


quote:

ORIGINAL: James Ward

I like the SPAT just not the towed ones. They just don't seem to do well in any area.


True, AT guns can only do good if backed by artillery other wise they are easily killed by infantry. There are only a couple of situations were buying them to cover a flank with out transport makes sense and their are still other alternatives if you have a couple of hundred prestige to spend.


If I have an extra couple of hundred prestige I'm buying another tank! [:)]

I would like to use the towed AT but they need some help. They should really shine on the defense against armor and they don't.



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