1st Turn Redistribution of Support Units (Full Version)

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Hagleboz -> 1st Turn Redistribution of Support Units (7/27/2011 8:18:28 AM)

There are very serious inequalities in how support units are distributed between the Corp HQ's right from the get go. An egregious example is 9th Army's VIII Corp which is just swimming with attached units while XXXXII Corp, also part of 9th Army, is completely lacking. There are several other HQ's nearby in a similar boat. It was a real hassle in my last game trying to move some these support units where they were needed once I was a few turns in.

I'm toying with a new game using 1.04.36 and I'm thinking about focusing a majority of my first turn's AP toward shifting these units around before the HQ's get too separated. I was thinking it would be best to do so after I've broken down the front lines and conducted all of the combat within HQ range, but before the HQ's started moving. My plan is to try and send most of my heavy artillery up north to aid in the assault on Leningrad since that's the first likely front where I'll be facing heavy resistance. With more difficult terrain and less ability to maneuver brute force comes into play more often so I anticipate the heavies will have more to do up there. Also aiming to get some artillery/howitzers and pioneer battalions into the empty commands that I anticipate having long term front line duty.

Was just wondering what other people do regarding this issue both in the initial turns and then later. What type of distribution do you use among HQ's? Also is there any other way to transfer support around the map besides dumping into OKH and training it around when HQ's get spread out? Direct transfer of support units only goes 10 hexes and it costs an AP every time it changes commands which adds up pretty quick and is a real pain in the ass. Training OKH uses rail I'd rather use elsewhere if possible plus it's a pain.

BTW I know about locking up the HQ's to prevent auto distribution. Is there ever a time when it's useful to unlock?



Harovan -> RE: 1st Turn Redistribution of Support Units (7/27/2011 10:55:42 AM)

Some HQs don't have SUs simply for the fact, that they were considered reserves and entered battle much later. The scenario isn't much accurate either, for instance the L Corps wasn't even close to the front, when war broke out, and here it's part of 18th army. Or the XXIII Corps, which was reserve of AGN (which is where it's positioned, too), but here it's part of 9th army. Or XXXXII Corps, which was a bit of an OKH fire brigade in 1941, starting near Bialystok, later fighting near Leningrad and ending the year on the Crimea. There was no other corps HQ traveling that much.

I try to distribute SUs about even to all corps. Each corps gets 3 artillery battalions, 2 AA battalions (or 1 battalion and 2 companies) and 1 pioneer battalion. All of those except for 2-3 reserve corps I hold behind the lines. Armored corps get some Nebelwerfers and Stugs, infantry corps some excess pioneers, AT units and heavy howitzers.

I even out Army Group balance on turn 1, then army balance on turn 4-5 and finally equip all corps somewhere between turn 8 and 10 as I get enough APs.



Klydon -> RE: 1st Turn Redistribution of Support Units (7/27/2011 1:18:02 PM)

I am usually too busy moving divisions out of corps that are way overloaded to other corps that have space. I think this is extremely important to give the respective commanders a chance at their die rolls. I am also busy moving divisions from army reserve (units attached directly to armies) to corps that have space for them. What little SU work I do on turn 1 is to support PG4 attacking Riga on turn 1. (attach pioneer and stug units to panzer divisions making the attack).

As far as the game unfolding for the first couple of turns, I will usually send a fair amount of pioneers to 18th army and some to 16th army if I am going for Leningrad. Stugs get pulled from infantry formations and sent to panzer formations to be attacked to the motorized units to beef them up since they become easier targets for counter attacks later on.



heliodorus04 -> RE: 1st Turn Redistribution of Support Units (7/29/2011 5:48:11 AM)

I have a spreadsheet, mostly designed by a former opponent, on which there are columns for pioneer, artillery (collectively), panzerjaeger, stugs, AA, and construction battalions assigned to each corps, organized by army and army group.

By far the biggest problem is between 9th Army and 17th Army (or is it 11th, the one with all the jaeger divisions, not the one in Romania). I think without exception, 9th Army's over-abundance is the one you can most easily tidy up with (VIII Corps). The corps that have 0 to start should get arty (up to 3 per corps). After that 1 pioneer per corps, but don't spend AP beyond getting excess pioneers OUT of corps with more than 1 (exception: any armored units should keep the pioneers they start with).

If you do it right, you can move VIII corps westward into range of some of AGS's corps (but you might have to move them north first). It's tricky. You can also take arty excess SUs OUT of panzer corps, because they won't benefit from them as much. They don't attack as often, and mostly hasty attacks (that won't be able to draw SUs unless the HQ hasn't moved).

You can't squander T1 AP. There are only 30. On T1, I can accommodate over-command limits (until T2). SU assignment is for me a higher priority here. Starting on T2 I have a lot more options for moving SUs since Armies and Army Groups will start seeing SUs move up the chain of command for distribution. Then Command Limits start to matter more.



DorianGray -> RE: 1st Turn Redistribution of Support Units (8/2/2011 12:12:38 AM)

I have played about 10 games against the computer AI up to the first winter, mainly focused on organization of the German Armies during the initial blitz.

I really enjoy micro-management of my armies to get the most ideal support unit mix, but have found myself running out of admin points rather quick if I do everything manually.

So, I needed to figure out a way to allow the AI to do some of the work for me - with the finer micro-management left to me later.

The following is what has worked best for me.

1. Given the initial support unit distribution is a mess (for me anyways) and needs to be completely redone from scratch, I set the following initial (Turn 1) settings for the German troops:

a. Set all German HQs to SL 1
b. Then set all Air HQs to LOCK
c. Then set all Security HQs to LOCK

This starts the process of moving support units up the HQ hierachy chain to OKH. From OKH, at least we can manually distribute down to other HQs for free AND it makes the SU globally accessible for most manual attachments.

2. On Turn 2, there will be a noticable increase in SUs showing up in Army and AG HQs. That is ok.

3. Now, starting around turn 3 or 4, most of the SUs will be in OKH with most every Corps HQ having 1 of each SU type. This is pretty much how I want it as a baseline anyways. Now it is time to set all German HQs to LOCK. The reason why this is important is because I start to manually distribute my SUs to how I want them AND I do not want the computer moving my construction / road building engineers around. I tend to pull all the construction / road building engineers back to OKH / AGN / AGC / AGS.

Why? Well, for what ever reason, the computer AI tends to do a better job of automatically assign them to rail building when they are at a higher tier HQ. ( probably due to increase range ) I really like having as much rail repair going on as possible. It is VERY noticable when all the construction engineers are pooled at the higher HQs.

4. During the first 10 turns, I try to spend my admin points each turn on:
a. one major expenditure ( i.e. appoint of a new leader, chain of command reorganization, reassignment of RU units to non-AGS HQs, etc )
b. assignment of unassigned mechanized divisions / brigades to appropriate Pz Corps HQs
c. Remainder of turn's admin points on:
c1. assignment of one Stug per motorized division
c2. assignment of FlamPz SUs to the SS
c3. assignment of one Pioneer to each Pz / Motorized division
c4. assignment of one Flak to each Pz / Motorized division
c5. assignment of one LW AA SUs to each HQ
c6. assignment of one misc SU to each infantry division with a morale of 90 or greater ( higher morale units move farther and it is nice to see them flagged on the map. plus it makes sense to have them overstrength a bit. )
c7. assignment of extra Arty SUs to Corp HQs in key areas (I like to load up AGN and PZ HQs in general with 4+ Arty SUs, all other HQs get 2-3 Arty )
c8. manual unassignment of *idle* construction / road engineers to a higher HQs.

If you start to see *idle* construction / road engineers in OKH / AGN / AGC / AGS, then it is time to move that HQ so it can reach more repairable rail hexes.

And finally, once you are ready to start digging in for the coming Russian Winter, you may feel the need to start moving some of the construction SUs back down to various Corps HQ to increase their construction rate appropriately.




sveint -> RE: 1st Turn Redistribution of Support Units (8/2/2011 12:26:57 AM)

I save my AP for other (more imortant) things until mud comes. During mud I reorganize all the SUs.



DorianGray -> RE: 1st Turn Redistribution of Support Units (8/2/2011 12:41:05 AM)

Maximizing rail construction prior to the first mud is a major priority for me.



kvolk -> RE: 1st Turn Redistribution of Support Units (8/2/2011 1:51:05 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DorianGray

I have played about 10 games against the computer AI up to the first winter, mainly focused on organization of the German Armies during the initial blitz.

I really enjoy micro-management of my armies to get the most ideal support unit mix, but have found myself running out of admin points rather quick if I do everything manually.

So, I needed to figure out a way to allow the AI to do some of the work for me - with the finer micro-management left to me later.

The following is what has worked best for me.

1. Given the initial support unit distribution is a mess (for me anyways) and needs to be completely redone from scratch, I set the following initial (Turn 1) settings for the German troops:

a. Set all German HQs to SL 1
b. Then set all Air HQs to LOCK
c. Then set all Security HQs to LOCK

This starts the process of moving support units up the HQ hierachy chain to OKH. From OKH, at least we can manually distribute down to other HQs for free AND it makes the SU globally accessible for most manual attachments.

2. On Turn 2, there will be a noticable increase in SUs showing up in Army and AG HQs. That is ok.

3. Now, starting around turn 3 or 4, most of the SUs will be in OKH with most every Corps HQ having 1 of each SU type. This is pretty much how I want it as a baseline anyways. Now it is time to set all German HQs to LOCK. The reason why this is important is because I start to manually distribute my SUs to how I want them AND I do not want the computer moving my construction / road building engineers around. I tend to pull all the construction / road building engineers back to OKH / AGN / AGC / AGS.

Why? Well, for what ever reason, the computer AI tends to do a better job of automatically assign them to rail building when they are at a higher tier HQ. ( probably due to increase range ) I really like having as much rail repair going on as possible. It is VERY noticable when all the construction engineers are pooled at the higher HQs.

4. During the first 10 turns, I try to spend my admin points each turn on:
a. one major expenditure ( i.e. appoint of a new leader, chain of command reorganization, reassignment of RU units to non-AGS HQs, etc )
b. assignment of unassigned mechanized divisions / brigades to appropriate Pz Corps HQs
c. Remainder of turn's admin points on:
c1. assignment of one Stug per motorized division
c2. assignment of FlamPz SUs to the SS
c3. assignment of one Pioneer to each Pz / Motorized division
c4. assignment of one Flak to each Pz / Motorized division
c5. assignment of one LW AA SUs to each HQ
c6. assignment of one misc SU to each infantry division with a morale of 90 or greater ( higher morale units move farther and it is nice to see them flagged on the map. plus it makes sense to have them overstrength a bit. )
c7. assignment of extra Arty SUs to Corp HQs in key areas (I like to load up AGN and PZ HQs in general with 4+ Arty SUs, all other HQs get 2-3 Arty )
c8. manual unassignment of *idle* construction / road engineers to a higher HQs.

If you start to see *idle* construction / road engineers in OKH / AGN / AGC / AGS, then it is time to move that HQ so it can reach more repairable rail hexes.

And finally, once you are ready to start digging in for the coming Russian Winter, you may feel the need to start moving some of the construction SUs back down to various Corps HQ to increase their construction rate appropriately.




Thx for sharing this it makes good sense to me and will save me some time. I like it pooled in one place to share out where needed.



sveint -> RE: 1st Turn Redistribution of Support Units (8/2/2011 2:30:08 AM)

quote:

Maximizing rail construction prior to the first mud is a major priority for me.


I agree, but wasting AP on moving flak units is not.



Mynok -> RE: 1st Turn Redistribution of Support Units (8/2/2011 3:07:43 AM)


Mixed flak units are VERY helpful for German infantry defending against Soviet armor. This is most needed in the south of course.

One thing I don't do that Dorian mentioned is put a lot of arty in the Pz Corps HQs. Art is more suited to making holes than exploiting them, and many times the panzers have gotten out of range of receiving support unit help by the time they moved into position to attack rear area units. Arty goes with the infantry for me, with the heavy stuff going to AGN to help with Leningrad.



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