About operation blue scenario? (Full Version)

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Jakerson -> About operation blue scenario? (7/30/2011 2:55:09 PM)

I do not understand why these (Voronezh, Rostov, Sevastopol and Voroshilovgrad) are scored objectives that give Soviet side points per turn? I have played operation blue 5 times now as Soviet (against human German) and 4 games out 5 all of these objectives fall at turn 1 before Soviet have zero chance get any points from them as they are fallen before Soviet get first chance to move units.

If German player knows his optimized turn 1 moves on Operation Blue Scenario and how to take all these targets at first turn he can win operation blue by not even trying to take Stalingrad, Baku or any other objective that was their objective historically just by clearing Soviet pockets created first turn and avoiding big losses after that. It is bit boring to play when result of operation blue scenario is decided at turn 1 moves even before Soviet side get chance to make their first moves. Just my five cents.



Great_Ajax -> RE: About operation blue scenario? (8/1/2011 12:47:53 PM)

Are you sure about this? According to my calculations of the VPs, if the Germans only secured those four victory objectives that you listed on the first turn, they would be overwhelmingly defeated by the Soviets in VPs as broken down here:

German VPs:
Voronezh: 50 (EG)
Rostov: 50 (EG)
Sevastapol: 100 (EG)
Voroshilovgrad: 50 (EG)
Total Axis VPs: 250 (EG)

Soviet VPs:
Baku: 200
Boguchar: 200 (EG) + 325 (ET Cumulative)
Grozny: 150
Maikop: 150
Krasnodar: 100 + 210 (ET Cumulative)
Stalingrad: 100 + 210 (ET Cumulative)
Total Soviet VPs: 1645

Note that the VPs are not the same for both sides. I played two games as the Germans vs the AI and captured all of the northern objectives through Stalingrad but wasnt able to capture Baku and Grozny and secured an Axis minor victory. The Germans just about have to grab all VPs to include Baku in order to achieve a major victory.

Trey

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jakerson

I do not understand why these (Voronezh, Rostov, Sevastopol and Voroshilovgrad) are scored objectives that give Soviet side points per turn? I have played operation blue 5 times now as Soviet (against human German) and 4 games out 5 all of these objectives fall at turn 1 before Soviet have zero chance get any points from them as they are fallen before Soviet get first chance to move units.

If German player knows his optimized turn 1 moves on Operation Blue Scenario and how to take all these targets at first turn he can win operation blue by not even trying to take Stalingrad, Baku or any other objective that was their objective historically just by clearing Soviet pockets created first turn and avoiding big losses after that. It is bit boring to play when result of operation blue scenario is decided at turn 1 moves even before Soviet side get chance to make their first moves. Just my five cents.





Jakerson -> RE: About operation blue scenario? (8/1/2011 1:43:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: el hefe

Are you sure about this? According to my calculations of the VPs, if the Germans only secured those four victory objectives that you listed on the first turn, they would be overwhelmingly defeated by the Soviets in VPs as broken down here:

German VPs:
Voronezh: 50 (EG)
Rostov: 50 (EG)
Sevastapol: 100 (EG)
Voroshilovgrad: 50 (EG)
Total Axis VPs: 250 (EG)

Soviet VPs:
Baku: 200
Boguchar: 200 (EG) + 325 (ET Cumulative)
Grozny: 150
Maikop: 150
Krasnodar: 100 + 210 (ET Cumulative)
Stalingrad: 100 + 210 (ET Cumulative)
Total Soviet VPs: 1645

Note that the VPs are not the same for both sides. I played two games as the Germans vs the AI and captured all of the northern objectives through Stalingrad but wasnt able to capture Baku and Grozny and secured an Axis minor victory. The Germans just about have to grab all VPs to include Baku in order to achieve a major victory.

Trey


Boguchar has always fallen at turn 2 so I don’t understand why you count full points from it every game I have played so Soviet side only get 1 turn ET points from it. No matter even if you put full stack there it falls at turn 2 since they have no time to fortify. At turn 1 it is no possible Soviet side to send strong defenses at Boguchar to make it last longer than 1 turn all troops are trapped after German turn one moves. Troops on the behind are mostly inactive with 0 movement points and no reinforcement coming before German attack there at turn 2.

After that Germany can take more points decimating whole Bryansk front by sending majority of German mobile troops against it instead of going against Stalingrad and Baku. Germany doing right turn one moves along with taking all these objectives can Trap Bryansk front in the way that it cannot be saved from isolation done with majority of German mobile troops at turn 2. These moves give rest points German need to victory.

With this tactics score is about 1600 German side and 600 Soviet side at turn 3 after that German shift to defense without overextending his troops just fortifying he can easily hang against any soviet counter attacks. Soviet side gets 420 ET points from Stalingrad and Krasnodar. Game end 1600+ for German and 1000 score for Soviet.



Great_Ajax -> RE: About operation blue scenario? (8/1/2011 1:53:05 PM)

Can you post some final screenshots of these VPs of these games because your experience is not what myself and other testers experienced. It could be a matter of needing todecrease the amount of VPs from casualties.

Trey

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jakerson

quote:

ORIGINAL: el hefe

Are you sure about this? According to my calculations of the VPs, if the Germans only secured those four victory objectives that you listed on the first turn, they would be overwhelmingly defeated by the Soviets in VPs as broken down here:

German VPs:
Voronezh: 50 (EG)
Rostov: 50 (EG)
Sevastapol: 100 (EG)
Voroshilovgrad: 50 (EG)
Total Axis VPs: 250 (EG)

Soviet VPs:
Baku: 200
Boguchar: 200 (EG) + 325 (ET Cumulative)
Grozny: 150
Maikop: 150
Krasnodar: 100 + 210 (ET Cumulative)
Stalingrad: 100 + 210 (ET Cumulative)
Total Soviet VPs: 1645

Note that the VPs are not the same for both sides. I played two games as the Germans vs the AI and captured all of the northern objectives through Stalingrad but wasnt able to capture Baku and Grozny and secured an Axis minor victory. The Germans just about have to grab all VPs to include Baku in order to achieve a major victory.

Trey


Boguchar has always fallen at turn 2 so I don’t understand why you count full points from it every game I have played so Soviet side only get 1 turn ET points from it. No matter even if you put full stack there it falls at turn 2 since they have no time to fortify. At turn 1 it is no possible Soviet side to send strong defenses at Boguchar to make it last longer than 1 turn all troops are trapped after German turn one moves. Troops on the behind are mostly inactive with 0 movement points and no reinforcement coming before German attack there at turn 2.

After that Germany can take more points decimating whole Bryansk front by sending majority of German mobile troops against it instead of going against Stalingrad and Baku. Germany doing right turn one moves along with taking all these objectives can Trap Bryansk front in the way that it cannot be saved from isolation done with majority of German mobile troops at turn 2. These moves give rest points German need to victory.

With this tactics score is about 1600 German side and 600 Soviet side at turn 3 after that German shift to defense without overextending his troops just fortifying he can easily hang against any soviet counter attacks. Soviet side gets 420 ET points from Stalingrad and Krasnodar. Game end 1600+ for German and 1000 score for Soviet.




leehunt27@bloomberg.net -> RE: About operation blue scenario? (8/7/2011 6:25:39 PM)

this doesn't seem right, the Russians get a huge amount of points from holding cities each turn... more than the 400 your example shows...



Jakerson -> RE: About operation blue scenario? (8/8/2011 9:22:44 AM)

I can post screen shot later Boguchar always falls at turn 2 so Soviet get only 1 turn ET points from there. Reason for this that most of original mainline troops are isolated and Bryanks front get killed anyway. Most of the Soviet troops are freezed and no much reinforcements coming at that point.

Other ET objectives are already fallen at turn 1 only Stalingrad and Krasnodar remains in Soviet hand after turn 2. Stanlingrad is very hard to hold German can take it with Frontal assault since german could get full stacks of troops all around city hexes after Bryansk front is killed.

Only Krasnodar is defendable objective but only if you send a lot more troops there than originally. German isolating whole Bryansk front at turn 3 allow german to send his whole army against Stalingrad and Krasnodar without need to send any units at all to guard flanks.



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