quote:

ORIGINAL: Yaab

A question concerning LCU supply cost.

"(D.1) LCU supply cost

Most players emphasise the Assault Value (AV) of a LCU instead of the combat firepower of the unit which is a much more useful measure. The merits of the two measures is however a discussion best left to another day. What players do generally tend to pay little attention is the cost of maintaining a unit out in the field.

The average size of a fully built up Allied division is about 450 AV. A fully equipped Chinese LCU could be double this but they tend to lack access to the necessary supply. A division of about 450 AV, which is not engaged in combat will consume approximately 1500 supply points monthly, or 50 daily. A brigade of approximately 150 AV not engaged in combat will consume approximately 500 supply points monthly".



So, if a fully equipped Chinese LCU corps (consuming 1500 supplies monthly) is parked in an empty base, the base tries to stockpile 3 x 1500 supplies ( three times than what is required by the corps ). If the LCU upkeep cost is monthly,then the base is stockpiling a three months reserve of supplies. This means there is almost no point in parking LCUs in bases in supply-poor environment like China since you dramatically reduce the number of free supplies available to units in the field, where LCUs carry only their monthly allotment of supplies instead of quarterly allotment.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yaab

A question concerning LCU supply cost.

"(D.1) LCU supply cost

Most players emphasise the Assault Value (AV) of a LCU instead of the combat firepower of the unit which is a much more useful measure. The merits of the two measures is however a discussion best left to another day. What players do generally tend to pay little attention is the cost of maintaining a unit out in the field.

The average size of a fully built up Allied division is about 450 AV. A fully equipped Chinese LCU could be double this but they tend to lack access to the necessary supply. A division of about 450 AV, which is not engaged in combat will consume approximately 1500 supply points monthly, or 50 daily. A brigade of approximately 150 AV not engaged in combat will consume approximately 500 supply points monthly".



So, if a fully equipped Chinese LCU corps (consuming 1500 supplies monthly) is parked in an empty base, the base tries to stockpile 3 x 1500 supplies ( three times than what is required by the corps ). If the LCU upkeep cost is monthly,then the base is stockpiling a three months reserve of supplies. This means there is almost no point in parking LCUs in bases in supply-poor environment like China since you dramatically reduce the number of free supplies available to units in the field, where LCUs carry only their monthly allotment of supplies instead of quarterly allotment.

I've actually been thinking about this a lot lately. I think you are right.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yaab

In a supply-scarce environment such as China, the idea of bases hoarding three times the required supplies seems excessive. I can park a corps with a monthly upkeep of 1500 supply points in a non-base hex next to Changsha for the total monthly cost of 1500 supply points, or I can park the same corps in Changsha for the monthly cost of 1500 supply points + 3000 additional supply points tied to Changsha. Since bases can only export surplus supply above x 3 requirement, then it is very hard to justify parking Chinese corps in bases, because very little supply is exported from bases to units in field.

It would be much better if bases only collected twice the supplies required instead of thrice.

quote:

ORIGINAL: CaptDave

Great report!  Should probably be added to the Wiki, as well.  With your permission, Alfred, I'll make that happen.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

(C.1) Spoilage

Bases whose combined airfield and port levels amount to less than 9 can suffer spoilage of their supply (and fuel) stockpile.

Spoilage will occur if the following base thresholds are exceeded:

•Size 8 – above 197k supply (129k fuel)
•Size 7 – above 152k supply (99k fuel)
•Size 6 – above 113k supply (73k fuel)
•Size 5 – above 80k supply (51k fuel)
•Size 4 – above 53k supply (33k fuel)
•Size 3 – above 32k supply (19k fuel)
•Size 2 – above 17k supply (9k fuel)
•Size 1 – above 8k supply (3k fuel)

Note that the check for spoilage is made for each stockpile. A Size 8 base with 154k supply plus 83k fuel will not suffer spoilage. It will suffer supply spoilage if it has 204k supply plus 22k fuel.

Dot bases can store up to 5k supplies and 1k fuel before suffering spoilage.

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ORIGINAL: Yaab

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

(C.1) Spoilage

Bases whose combined airfield and port levels amount to less than 9 can suffer spoilage of their supply (and fuel) stockpile.

Spoilage will occur if the following base thresholds are exceeded:

•Size 8 – above 197k supply (129k fuel)
•Size 7 – above 152k supply (99k fuel)
•Size 6 – above 113k supply (73k fuel)
•Size 5 – above 80k supply (51k fuel)
•Size 4 – above 53k supply (33k fuel)
•Size 3 – above 32k supply (19k fuel)
•Size 2 – above 17k supply (9k fuel)
•Size 1 – above 8k supply (3k fuel)

Note that the check for spoilage is made for each stockpile. A Size 8 base with 154k supply plus 83k fuel will not suffer spoilage. It will suffer supply spoilage if it has 204k supply plus 22k fuel.

Dot bases can store up to 5k supplies and 1k fuel before suffering spoilage.

Not sure If I got it right.

If I have a base size 2 holding 27,000 supplies and zero fuel, I suffer no supply spoilage at the base? And if the same base holds 27,000 fuel and zero supplies, I suffer no fuel spoilage?

quote:

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yaab

In a supply-scarce environment such as China, the idea of bases hoarding three times the required supplies seems excessive. I can park a corps with a monthly upkeep of 1500 supply points in a non-base hex next to Changsha for the total monthly cost of 1500 supply points, or I can park the same corps in Changsha for the monthly cost of 1500 supply points + 3000 additional supply points tied to Changsha. Since bases can only export surplus supply above x 3 requirement, then it is very hard to justify parking Chinese corps in bases, because very little supply is exported from bases to units in field.

It would be much better if bases only collected twice the supplies required instead of thrice.

I realized this years ago and mentioned it in an AAR of mine, but no discussion ever developed further. The 3x supply at bases contributes to China being almost indefensible as you can't get the supply forward if garrisons are hoarding all the supply. I keep my rear Chinese bases almost empty of troops, but still defend against paratroops.

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ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yaab

In a supply-scarce environment such as China, the idea of bases hoarding three times the required supplies seems excessive. I can park a corps with a monthly upkeep of 1500 supply points in a non-base hex next to Changsha for the total monthly cost of 1500 supply points, or I can park the same corps in Changsha for the monthly cost of 1500 supply points + 3000 additional supply points tied to Changsha. Since bases can only export surplus supply above x 3 requirement, then it is very hard to justify parking Chinese corps in bases, because very little supply is exported from bases to units in field.

It would be much better if bases only collected twice the supplies required instead of thrice.

I realized this years ago and mentioned it in an AAR of mine, but no discussion ever developed further. The 3x supply at bases contributes to China being almost indefensible as you can't get the supply forward if garrisons are hoarding all the supply. I keep my rear Chinese bases almost empty of troops, but still defend against paratroops.

Not so. The problem is that supply flows out of bases to units in the field as a priority, even if the units at the base are starving. Many times I have had to swap starving troops out of a Chinese base with troops in supply in the adjacent hex.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yaab

Alfred, what about command HQs?

They attract 20k to themselves at all times.

Consider. Jap player puts a command HQ in northern Burma in a non-base hex. There are Jap LCUs in adjacent non-base hexes. Can they draw supplies from the command HQ supply stash or do they have to be in the same hex with the HQ in order do get the supplies?

Basically, is command HQ a kind of movable base which can distribute supplies further to LCUs in absence of any elligible base?

quote:

e the stock form. Let me try a list:
In the field, fortifying, repairing/expanding airfields, repairing/expanding ports, and repairing refineries/oil fields can soak up a lot of sup

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yaab

Alfred, what about command HQs?

They attract 20k to themselves at all times.

Consider. Jap player puts a command HQ in northern Burma in a non-base hex. There are Jap LCUs in adjacent non-base hexes. Can they draw supplies from the command HQ supply stash or do they have to be in the same hex with the HQ in order do get the supplies?

Basically, is command HQ a kind of movable base which can distribute supplies further to LCUs in absence of any elligible base?

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Now that was some valuable info for a newbie.

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ORIGINAL: clamel

Now that was some valuable info for a newbie.
Well worth to bump it after last post a looong Covid year ago.

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ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: clamel

Now that was some valuable info for a newbie.
Well worth to bump it after last post a looong Covid year ago.

IME, HQs do not donate their own supply to sub units or any units. When a stack of units gets isolated the combat units run out of supply first because of the higher usage rate and the HQs continue to hold their supply permanently. HQs help draw supply into the hex, but don't necessarily keep it in their own inventory. AFAIK they only keep their own allotment.