I miss the 11Army

I miss the 11Army (Full Version)

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EisenHammer -> I miss the 11Army (8/7/2011 8:13:51 AM)
Can this be fixed ? [image][/image] Is there a way to prevent the 11 Army HQ from withdrawing ? I had the 11 army in between two Rumanian armies. Now they are without an army HQ. What should I do? I really want my German troops under German army command. [image]local://upfiles/30051/9DF4AAEF952B41A5B22A6B50DC8E9D60.jpg[/image]

CarnageINC -> RE: I miss the 11Army (8/7/2011 8:23:36 AM)
Unfortunately I don't have a solution to your current predicament because I don't really know your overall situation. However this problem takes planning in the earlier stages before it happens...which I'm sure you see now. I usually use 2nd Army along with 6th Army to help take the commands away from 11th Army before it disappears. These 2 armies have lower command demands on them to start with and can easily take the extra divisions. Maybe you can attach some of those units to German commands north of your current lines or have to bite the bullet with Romanian commands until you can rearrange your command structure or until another HQ unit comes into theater. Good luck finding a solution, that's why we play the game I guess.

EisenHammer -> RE: I miss the 11Army (8/7/2011 8:41:24 AM)
What would happen if I just let Army Group South command them? Will they still get supplies ?

Jakerson -> RE: I miss the 11Army (8/7/2011 8:55:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: EisenHammer What would happen if I just let Army Group South command them? Will they still get supplies ? They fight little bit less effective units that are commanded by OKH get largest penalties in combat. Units commanded by army groups get also penalty but less than OKH commanded units. Attaching units to army group is better than attaching them to high command. Units attached to Corps and army HQ's don’t get penalties in combat but for German it is best to attach units to corps HQ's as soon as possible because it maximize chances of getting SU units in combat. It also lowers their chances to get SU units in combat. They get supplies as long as they are not isolated but also in there they get supplies less effective than when they are attached to armies or corps HQ's.

EisenHammer -> RE: I miss the 11Army (8/7/2011 9:01:13 AM)
Thank you both, for the Info. It would nice if you could use AP to stop or move units withdraw dates. But I still have to find a way too fix my front line.

EisenHammer -> RE: I miss the 11Army (8/7/2011 10:17:25 AM)
Come on… this is BS. Worst than the U.S. Congress. Over 145,000 German troops left in limbo, on the eastern front with no army command. Get real…please.[8\|] Yesss...I'm getting mad. But I still love the game.[&o] please fixed this.[sm=innocent0001.gif]

ComradeP -> RE: I miss the 11Army (8/7/2011 11:37:03 AM)
You had since turn 1 to prepare for this, as it's a scheduled withdrawal. You have an advantage over historical commanders, because on turn 1 you can see exactly when a unit will withdraw. If you don't plan for that, don't call it a flaw in the game, because it's a flaw in your planning. You can attach the units to corps HQ's and then to an army group HQ or OKH to avoid combat penalties. The withdrawal also happens during your turn, so you have a turn to get C&C in order and thus don't have to take combat penalties, as you can fix the situation before attacking or being attacked.

sveint -> RE: I miss the 11Army (8/7/2011 12:05:57 PM)
While I agree that withdrawals are clearly listed, it would be much more fun and convenient if the silly historical withdrawals were replaced with a flexible system. The war won't proceed according to history, why should the withdrawals?

Klydon -> RE: I miss the 11Army (8/7/2011 3:10:30 PM)
While I can understand the concern/heartburn over the withdrawing of Axis units, we all know that if there were some "optional" system put in place that players would do everything they could to keep the units in theater. There is no viable tradeoff you can force the Germans to make in this game that would include "that is a pretty steep price to pay to leave this unit here, so I will let it go instead". Like the real battlefield, the commanders knew the 11th army was slated to move. As tough as it is to deal with, deal with it you must.

Scook_99 -> RE: I miss the 11Army (8/7/2011 3:18:11 PM)
That would be a tough choice. 11th Army was disbanded November 21, 1942, to make up Army Group Don. So if you were to keep it, you won't get the Army Group A and Army Group B split. Ok, so Army Group don is short lived and rolled into Army Group B, so they could actually have one Army Group with proper staffing. By this time in High Command, they would drunkenly sit on a unicycle and throw darts at a board to determine who and what would happen with Army HQs and higher.

ComradeP -> RE: I miss the 11Army (8/7/2011 3:57:42 PM)
quote: While I agree that withdrawals are clearly listed, it would be much more fun and convenient if the silly historical withdrawals were replaced with a flexible system. The war won't proceed according to history, why should the withdrawals? The problem with a flexible system is that a significant chunk of the war, namely the war against the Western Allies, is abstracted and you can't really make proper assumptions on how that would go. I'd agree that, at least with HQ's a system where you can buy a HQ, like some people have suggested, could very well be a nice feature to have whilst still being historical, as all you're doing is assigning a staff to a certain formation/shuffling staff around, you're not creating combat formations.

Jakerson -> RE: I miss the 11Army (8/7/2011 4:35:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ComradeP The problem with a flexible system is that a significant chunk of the war, namely the war against the Western Allies, is abstracted and you can't really make proper assumptions on how that would go. I'd agree that, at least with HQ's a system where you can buy a HQ, like some people have suggested, could very well be a nice feature to have whilst still being historical, as all you're doing is assigning a staff to a certain formation/shuffling staff around, you're not creating combat formations. It is game design choice to assume that war on the western front go totally historical route. This means that totally historical formations are send to western front. It is painful for German player but I think that was exactly what Eastern front Generals felt when their divisions were pulled to plug holes in other fronts before middle of their own operations that badly needed those troops too. I remember that there was some interview of developers of WITE to someday release massive mega game that integrates western front to game. So maybe someday there is game that western front is covered too.

EisenHammer -> RE: I miss the 11Army (8/8/2011 12:25:17 AM)
The 11th Army is now the 4th Panzer Army with no panzers it. I guess I have to pay more attention to HQ withdraw dates. [image]local://upfiles/30051/027179C9D35B428E8F2F19DE2976D9E6.jpg[/image]

Q-Ball -> RE: I miss the 11Army (8/8/2011 3:05:39 AM)
An easy fix is to make one of your "Panzer" Armies non-panzer. You don't have enough Panzers for 4 "all Panzer" armies anyway, and you really need the Army HQ for all the Infantry. The Panzer Armies start with organic infantry; once 1941 is over, I would make 2 or 3 full-on mobile formations, and use the last HQ to manage more infantry. The Germans basically did this anyway; sometimes "Panzer Armies" were that in only name. Case in point: At the time of Stalingrad, 4th Panzer Army had exactly one mobile division, 29th Mot.

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