German Caves (Full Version)

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Michael Wermelin -> German Caves (1/2/2001 1:44:00 PM)

During the Utah-Rhine campaign you encounter several german caves. These caves must be something extra because once in a while I have set upon them with no less than two platoons of shermans and about one platoon of M20s. At 2 hexes distance it was almost impossible to penetrate the "thin" armor of the caves, even if the Sherman AP rounds is said to be able to penetrate more than double that of the cave armor thickness. As if that were not enough, after fireing a total of 66 volleys of fire (cannon and MGs) with about 1/3 hits, the cave fired back EVERY time. After about 15 hits, the cave only fired rifles and MGs but that surely has to do with exhausted ammo of grenades. Not even pillboxes are this tuff. Have anyone else met these "super caves" ? Unfortunately I have not been able to compare the caves in Utah-Rhine with caves in other scenarios or battles.



Paul Vebber -> (1/2/2001 9:29:00 PM)

As teh Marines found out in the PAcific - about the only way to get units out of a cave was to take a flamethrower in after them. OF course teh other tactic is to smoke the front to blind them, get past them and ignore them.



panda124c -> (1/2/2001 9:53:00 PM)

quote:

Originally posted by Paul Vebber: As teh Marines found out in the PAcific - about the only way to get units out of a cave was to take a flamethrower in after them. OF course teh other tactic is to smoke the front to blind them, get past them and ignore them.
Don't forget the old 'use the bulldozer to bury'em'.



BlitzSS -> (1/3/2001 2:14:00 AM)

I'm glad I read this, becuase I just started the campaign. Petty sneaky, only WB would bring his caves into France. Are you sure they aren't wine cellars?



Fabs -> (1/3/2001 2:44:00 AM)

Now, I'm very interested in this. How do you make German caves? I have a Sicily scenario I'm working on where the germans are supposed to use caves. Are they in the OOB or is there a workaround to create them? ------------------ Fabs



David F. Wall -> (1/3/2001 5:09:00 AM)

Here's what I'd do: This is presuming caves are not to be found in the German OOB. Buy some units (I'd probably pick some fortification) from the German OOB, one for each cave you want to place. Use the 'R' button on the deploy menu in the editor, and then the NATION button on the resulting screen. I am almost sure Caves are to be found somewhere in the Japanese OOB. Change your forts into caves. Arm the caves appropriately by editing the weapon data ('D' button on the deployment menu). The good thing about this is one thing you won't have to do is come up with a German-sounding leader name. and his ratings will probably be about right. If you buy the units directly from the Japanese OOB, you wind up with Japanese leader names. DFW



BruceAZ -> (1/3/2001 6:19:00 AM)

The only way I know of taking out a cave is like Paul said, "Throw the book at them!" I can't think of anything tougher than running into a Jap cave complex full of die hard Bruce Willis's from Tokyo. They have a habit of ruining your day... I have found playing Pacific campaigns the only effective tool to kill a cave is a engineer unit (flame works a little better than satchel) that attacks from the sides or rear. Of course, bypassing them is easy except when they sit in front of a Victory Hex... ------------------ "The most important element in war is man. And there are no tougher men than my China Marines." Major Gen. Archer 'Archy' Vandegrift, 1st Marine Division



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