Help with setting Japanese Convoy Routes (Full Version)

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jon_r -> Help with setting Japanese Convoy Routes (8/27/2011 5:23:34 PM)


So I decided to cut my teeth on the dark side after playing the allies for the past year. Setting up convoy routes seems like a pretty forboding task for Japan. I understand the basic concept that I'm pulling resources from Korea, Manchuria, Hokkaido, Shikoku back to Honshu. It's just the sheer possibility that has me overwhelmed. Do folks use mulitple ports in the various areas for embarkation, or is it better to streamline to one or two ports of arrival and departure?

Also, I've tried sorting the AKs in various ports by speed. Is there an elegant solution to maximizing efficiency in transport? Do you pair similar speed transports with a slightly faster escort up to the tonnage maximum of the smaller port? Do you start shipping resources from turn 1 to ports in Honshu with an eye toward later setting up CS routes?

What are favorite escorts for IJN convoys? PBs only, or some mix of SCs/DDs, etc. Is closely matching speed or range more of a consideration?

Thanks in advance for any help... I've read most the Japanese production threads with interest, but am still stumped by the particulars.

[&o]
Jon



SuluSea -> RE: Help with setting Japanese Convoy Routes (8/27/2011 7:29:50 PM)

 Mike Solli's AAR and  was a huge help. The picture attached is a jpeg I altered from his information with slight adjustments made to the CMK transports(any mistakes are mine and not Mike's) 

I'm using a few SC's, with To'su and Kiso xPBs for 1 escort per TF so subs have to waste a torpedo instead of an easier gun kill, as more To'su class get converted to xPB I'll add more escorts and change up if neccesary. If at all possible I believe the majority will tell you it's always a good idea to match speed to keep things moving.

It's a catch 22 with speed and distance but I like the additional speed of the To'su class over the fuel bunker advantage that the Kiso's have therefore most of my xPB conversions are To'su and the majority of Kiso's go to ACM and AMc's.

Your big tankers like the Tonan class and more valuable classes need better protection and the high speed SCs or Momo/Momi class DDs might fill the void there.

So I don't lead you astray,  I'm not the most experienced on this side.

Edit- I thought I should mention I've been instructed to convert all Ansyu-C's to xPBs and found that tip to be very helpful for speed and/or distance.




Barb -> RE: Help with setting Japanese Convoy Routes (8/27/2011 7:33:48 PM)

From Shikoku and Kyushu you dont need any convoys unless you are using them as unloading places. What you need is to set up convoys from Sakhalin and Hokkaido (I use both Sapporo and that base on southern tip) and ship things to Honshu. I use convoys that consist entirely of one type of cargo ships adding some SCs/PBs.

For Manchuria you need at least two convoys maxed up in capacity (I think 164000 or 172000 tons displacements) and some faster ships (11+knts cruise speed is best). Usually these two convoys are on opposite sites of the route (one loading and one unloading).

I am not using Hong-Kong-Port Arthur magic railway so my convoys from SRA usually start at Singapore (major hub) and make all the way to Honshu - But these I am routing manually.

I divided all my escorts according to Range/Speed. So I have 3 rather big escort groups of mixed composition with long range capability and seed - ideal for troop convoy escort. Some shorter ranged and slower groups for regular but long range cargo convoys (resources from SRA and oil/fuel). And at the end there are some small groups for local work. Finally majority of those little SC/PB/AMc are spread out over whole area as local escort or reaction forces.



SuluSea -> RE: Help with setting Japanese Convoy Routes (8/27/2011 7:42:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Barb

From Shikoku you dont need any convoys unless you are using them as unloading places.



Hi Barb, using the latest released patch does resources flow from Shikoku to Honshu? Thanks [:)]



Barb -> RE: Help with setting Japanese Convoy Routes (8/27/2011 8:43:54 PM)

Hi, using the latest official patch :)



bigred -> RE: Help with setting Japanese Convoy Routes (8/27/2011 9:02:23 PM)

On my first jap turn I send all my transports not carrying troops to toyko to sort them by size and speed.  w/in about 10 days I was up an running.



jon_r -> RE: Help with setting Japanese Convoy Routes (8/28/2011 1:16:37 AM)

Thanks SuluSea, Barb, and bigred for the prompt and extremely helpful replies. Thanks also for Mike Solli's always insightful posts. I will follow his AAR with interest. This community is a Shangri-La (Atlantis?) in the vast Ocean of the World Wide Web. Thanks again!

Jon



n01487477 -> RE: Help with setting Japanese Convoy Routes (8/28/2011 1:39:45 AM)

As a post-script remember to use your engineers to maximise some of the ports you intend on using. Load times and transport size docking limits will be more efficient.



Mynok -> RE: Help with setting Japanese Convoy Routes (8/28/2011 1:47:20 AM)


That's very important at Ominato IMO. You would also do well to start upgrading some ports in northern Japan. You will quickly find it is just about impossible to keep up with the resources Hokkaido puts out otherwise.



SuluSea -> RE: Help with setting Japanese Convoy Routes (8/28/2011 2:57:05 AM)

Updated graphic inserted using Mike's advice.

Again any mistakes are mine and not Mikes.

[image]http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b11/Noopers/NewConvoy2.jpg[/image]

This looks like it will get me started, how it works for anyone else they'll be the judge. The plan is to augment when other vessels get freed up from their current duties. I subscribe to what Q-Ball alluded to in the past, Japanese transports need to be working instead of rusting away. I'll keep my eye on Toyama and am considering building up Akita's port as the cost of building should be offset by some fuel saved on the runs to Toyama and it uses some of the naval support that Ominato has.









Cap Mandrake -> RE: Help with setting Japanese Convoy Routes (8/28/2011 4:02:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SuluSea

Updated graphic inserted using Mike's advice.

Again any mistakes are mine and not Mikes.

[image]http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b11/Noopers/NewConvoy2.jpg[/image]

This looks like it will get me started, how it works for anyone else they'll be the judge. The plan is to augment when other vessels get freed up from their current duties. I subscribe to what Q-Ball alluded to in the past, Japanese transports need to be working instead of rusting away. I'll keep my eye on Toyama and am considering building up Akita's port as the cost of building should be offset by some fuel saved on the runs to Toyama and it uses some of the naval support that Ominato has.









You do realize this kind of thing could be quite valuable if it were to fall into Allied hands (Hehe...heheheh.heheh)



Cap Mandrake -> RE: Help with setting Japanese Convoy Routes (8/28/2011 4:05:29 PM)

Let's say I were to sart a game as Japan. What about stuff from the DEI and Borneo? [:)]



SuluSea -> RE: Help with setting Japanese Convoy Routes (8/28/2011 4:17:12 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake
You do realize this kind of thing could be quite valuable if it were to fall into Allied hands (Hehe...heheheh.heheh)


My troops that sail for the emperor all wasted on Saki and other mind altering substances they've procured around the empires reaches over the years. The zig zag comes natural, no concerns. [;)][:)]



Cap Mandrake -> RE: Help with setting Japanese Convoy Routes (8/28/2011 4:46:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SuluSea


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake
You do realize this kind of thing could be quite valuable if it were to fall into Allied hands (Hehe...heheheh.heheh)


My troops that sail for the emperor all wasted on Saki and other mind altering substances they've procured around the empires reaches over the years. The zig zag comes natural, no concerns. [;)][:)]


One Love! One Heart!

Let's get together and feel all right....Hai!



Chickenboy -> RE: Help with setting Japanese Convoy Routes (8/29/2011 1:15:09 PM)

I also prefer to withhold xAKs and xAKLs from CS convoys that have desirous upgrade paths. I tend to overlook the date when I can turn my xAKs into AK, xAK-t or-most importantly-TK conversions. Having to paw through my CS convoys trying to find ship so-and-so-maru because it's due for a critical upgrade in one month gets annoying.

Still, you'll find plenty of xAK 'overage' in the IJN OOB. Mike's chart is extremely efficient, so you could stick with that or sacrifice efficiency somewhat and use different ports. You know-just in case there were any Allied fanboy dogs reading this thread. [:'(]



SuluSea -> RE: Help with setting Japanese Convoy Routes (8/29/2011 2:11:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bigred

On my first jap turn I send all my transports not carrying troops to toyko to sort them by size and speed.  w/in about 10 days I was up an running.


I considered something like this but ended up with counting all the transports in each class.

I figured if I can get resource/fuel transports heading to their starting destinations on turn 1 I can get some free movement void of allied subs with the added benefit of getting things moving on the first turn.

It's a painstaking process which is fun for me but not for everyone, each class I started counting away from the destination until I reached the desired number made a transport TF and then went back and merged all the ones I previously counted , the TF picks up atleast one escort along the way. The labelling of transport TFs are a huge asset during the task, I not only label the original but count and label all the tf's that merge into the original that way an accurate count is able to be on hand despite outside distractions.

Once I have all the resource convoys headed in the right direction I counted all the hulls left in their respective classes so I can send them to the designated ports for faster troop conversions depending on the amount of hulls. Each class has a different port. The 17 knot plus APs and 18 knot AKs go to respective ports for immeadiate shipping out of LCUs. I hate those three slower ships in the amphibious TF at Sendai so seperated three and am unloading them on turn one and have three 18 knoters heading there for reloading and joining up with the already loaded amphibious force, the day sailing wasted will be picked up on the flip side with the added benefit of picking up III/4th Infantry Battalion at Iwaki and merging into the amphibious convoy... Any excess home island/CMK 17 knot plus APs/ 18 knot AKs go to C/M/K for shipping of bought out units.


As I'm waiting for my time to free up for a PBEM I'm scripting a first turn so I have a guide for later use but as it stands I have over 600 TFs so far with a final estimate to be in excess of 800. I get a kick out of seeing all the hulls heading off to their destinations on turn 1. [:)]



Cap Mandrake -> RE: Help with setting Japanese Convoy Routes (8/29/2011 7:47:55 PM)

800 task forces! [X(]

And I thoutht the Allied first turn was bad.



USS Henrico -> RE: Help with setting Japanese Convoy Routes (8/30/2011 12:46:49 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

I also prefer to withhold xAKs and xAKLs from CS convoys that have desirous upgrade paths. I tend to overlook the date when I can turn my xAKs into AK, xAK-t or-most importantly-TK conversions. Having to paw through my CS convoys trying to find ship so-and-so-maru because it's due for a critical upgrade in one month gets annoying.

Still, you'll find plenty of xAK 'overage' in the IJN OOB. Mike's chart is extremely efficient, so you could stick with that or sacrifice efficiency somewhat and use different ports. You know-just in case there were any Allied fanboy dogs reading this thread. [:'(]


Alled fanboy dogs can either start a solitaire games as the Japanese to see how the convoys should be setup or read threads. Since most dogs tend to be lazy, reading threads is easier. Woof!



Mike Solli -> RE: Help with setting Japanese Convoy Routes (9/3/2011 4:07:35 AM)

Hi guys. My AE is pretty hazy after being away since January but I agree with Chickenboy. Certain xAK classes are very useful in their upgraded versions. I figure out what classes do what and how well and pull some or all of them out for their converted use. The rest are used for hauling stuff. I like to keep ships of the same speed together when possible. I don't convert any of the xAPs. They're too valuable hauling troops.



Miller -> RE: Help with setting Japanese Convoy Routes (9/3/2011 2:19:57 PM)

I usually determine the usage of my transports by speed and range:


I use all xAKL's and 10 knot xAKs to haul resources locally from Hokkaido and Port Arthur, escorted by the 12 knot 1700 endurance PBs.

12 knot xAKs are the most numerous, mainly used by me to haul supply/resources to and from bases a little futher afield such as Hong Kong, the PI and the Marshall Islands.

14 knot are also common and are good all rounders, however there is one class with an endurance of 6000 that should be converted to PBs at the earliest opportunity.

I think most (if not all) 15 knot xAKs (Yunsen class) can be converted into proper AKs starting 6/42. They have the range to travel far as well.

All 18 knot AKs I use with my fast APs usually carrying supplies in a troop transport TF.



SuluSea -> RE: Help with setting Japanese Convoy Routes (9/3/2011 5:50:03 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Miller


I think most (if not all) 15 knot xAKs (Yunsen class) can be converted into proper AKs starting 6/42. They have the range to travel far as well.



For the benefit of those just starting up on this side some Yusens can be converted to navalized vessels in the first month.

xAK Yusen -A 18 knots there's an option to convert to navalized AKs in 12/41 ( my count is 7).
xAK Yusen-N 15 knots Although my math gets fuzzy as I get short on fingers and toes the option to convert 57 of them to navalized AKs as of 12/41 starting in 6/42.



Miller -> RE: Help with setting Japanese Convoy Routes (9/3/2011 10:33:04 PM)

It would be great if someone would be anal enough to list every single class of transport and the numbers in the game................



Mike Solli -> RE: Help with setting Japanese Convoy Routes (9/4/2011 12:05:30 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Miller

It would be great if someone would be anal enough to list every single class of transport and the numbers in the game................


I have that info somewhere. Just gotta find it.....



Mike Solli -> RE: Help with setting Japanese Convoy Routes (9/9/2011 1:12:37 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Miller

It would be great if someone would be anal enough to list every single class of transport and the numbers in the game................


Here it is (just the xAKs):

10 Yusen S
46 Lima
56 Yusen N
7 Yusen A
32 Kyushu
189 Aden
25 Husimi
57 Akasi
58 Ehime
53 Toho
17 Std-C
54 Ansyu-C
58 Gozan
59 Miyati
46 Kasu-D
68 Daigen
69 Kiso
37 To'su

Note that this is Scenario 1 and all ships that start out as xAKs (normal and -t). It doesn't include anything that is already converted to something else or ships in the queue.



undercovergeek -> RE: Help with setting Japanese Convoy Routes (9/9/2011 11:26:08 AM)

theres already enough around the HI for the HI - the DEI and Borneo stuff can stay down there and shipped to handy hubs - i send from Palembang to Koepang, Kendari, Balikpapan and Darwin. From Darwin to Port Moresby and Port Hedland, from PM to Rabaul, and Darwin to eventually Perth, thats assuming youre a goddam AE Tyrannasoraus like me and are ready to occupy OZ!!!



Chickenboy -> RE: Help with setting Japanese Convoy Routes (9/11/2011 2:22:15 AM)

Anyone here disagree with the recommendation to convert all pertinent xAKs to AKs as soon as possible?



Chickenboy -> RE: Help with setting Japanese Convoy Routes (9/11/2011 2:25:11 AM)

One more comment to piggy-back onto Mynok's: look at upgrading port facilities on Sakhalin too-lots of resources and (some) oil production transportation from here.



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