Invasion problems (to say the least) !

Invasion problems (to say the least) ! (Full Version)

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Skyfire7631 -> Invasion problems (to say the least) ! (10/22/2002 2:23:25 PM)
Hi, I'm playing scenario 17, as allies, it's February 43, and I'm trying to invade Shortland. Well, I got slaughtered :D, but mostly for bad reasons, IMHO. Here's what happened on first try : I bombed the airfields of Rabaul and Shortland during two weeks before the invasion, and made 4 bombardment missions to Shortland. The two airfields are now closed for repairs (the AI still manages to have a dozen of fighters do their CAP thing over Rabaul from time to time, but that's all). With the bombers, I also systematically sent a PRS air group. So, I look at Shortland, and what do I see ? Only 3 infantry units, 3 CD units, and 3 engineers units. Great, this will be a piece of cake ! :) I load a huge transport TF from Noumea with infantry, engineers, HQs, base forces, and tanks, and I send it to Shortland with, in support, a carrier TF and two surface combat TFs (1 BB, 3 CA, 3 CL, 2DD in each). And here we go. **, I forgot mine sweepers ! :( Result : almost all my transports are either damaged or sunk, but I nevertheless manage to have a good of number of troops on shore. Here comes the first land battle : but ... but ... there are not 3 infantry units in Shortland, but at least 10. , needless to say, I got my a kicked bad ;) OK, so I reload my end of January saved game, and try again. This time, I load my transport TF with only infantry and tanks, and one HQ and one engineers in support. And I send in Shortland a Mine Warfare TF with 2 DMS and 2 MSW, supported my 2 surface combat TFs. These 3 TFs will stay in Shortland for 4 days before the invasion. During these 4 days, a surface combat happens, where I sink 4 japanese CA, and loose 1 CA, and have a CL and a DD badly damaged. But I'm puzzled : the mine fields don't seem to be detected or sweeped .... ???? Indeed, they are not : when my transport TF comes in, the results are the same as before, all my transport ships are badly damaged or sunk ! :( I manage to have almost as many troops as the AI in Shortland, but I don't think I'll be able to take the base with that, and since I've almost no transports left ... I'm stuck. OK, with this said, here are the questions/remarks I have : - It would be a very very good thing if we could have more information about troops/bases at a given place. I mean, after two weeks of bombing and recon, I surely know a lot about Shortland and its troops. One idea that comes to my mind is that we should be able to click on an enemy base, and have a display similar to our bases, with orders disabled, and information more or less accurate based on the detection level of the bases/troops. Please, please, it would really help in planning invasions. - What happened with those **** mines ? Why my Mine Warfare TF did not detect and clean them ? And why were they not detected by either my recons or my previous bombardment missions ? - I don't understand why my transport TF of 24 ships, with a transport capacity of 47000, which I ordered to load with 14 troops for a total of 46000 capacity, ended up in a 35 or so ships TF (the computer automatically added lots of APD, and some LCI/LST) with a capacity of 65000. Note : I used the "Load only troops" order. I'm really interested in hearing your opinions about all this. Regards.

Raverdave -> (10/22/2002 3:43:47 PM)
The AI had noted that you re-loaded the game....and so it also cheated.;)

Skyfire7631 -> (10/22/2002 5:00:08 PM)
ROFL :D But not very constructive ... ;) Regards.

ADavidB -> (10/22/2002 5:10:51 PM)
Generally, you have to have the minesweepers in your assault TFs to protect them - for some reason you can't sweep in advance. As far as loading troops goes - the computer won't mix forces in the same ships, so unless every troop force is smaller than every ship, you will have ships with partitial loads of troops, and need more ships than you expect. So if you have a group with a load factor of 4400, you will need, for example, one 3000 capacity and one 2000 capacity ship to carry them, and the leftover 600 capacity won't be used for other troops. ( That's why I let supplies get loaded in assaults. ) So if you don't put in the extra ships, the computer will automatically. One way to avoid getting ships that you don't want added in to an assault TF is to put them into some arbitrary TF ahead of time, then when your invasion TF is complete, disband the "dummy" TF. Dave Baranyi

Skyfire7631 -> (10/22/2002 5:20:18 PM)
Thanks, that looks like a good tip :) BTW : aren't TFs supposed to be limited to 25 ships ? If so, why did I end up with more than 35 ships ? Oh yeah, about the mines, if you're right, a solution would then be to send a single transport ship supported by the Mine Warfare TF to clear the mines in advance, don't you think ? Regards.

Pawlock -> (10/22/2002 6:30:47 PM)
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Skyfire76 [B]Thanks, that looks like a good tip :) BTW : aren't TFs supposed to be limited to 25 ships ? If so, why did I end up with more than 35 ships ? Oh yeah, about the mines, if you're right, a solution would then be to send a single transport ship supported by the Mine Warfare TF to clear the mines in advance, don't you think ? Regards. [/B][/QUOTE] Im sure I've seen someone from Matrix comment on MSW before in another thread, IIRC a good way to set up would be to have a MSW force set to follow in the same hex, in that way the MSW force will execute its orders first and proceed to conduct operations in the destination hex first.

mogami -> answers (10/22/2002 6:36:56 PM)
Hi, Were you flying RECON??? before first try. You have to fly enough recon to raise the dectection level of the enemy at a base before seeing all of them. Are MS TF set to "DO NOT RETIRE"? Don't send any unit without a combat value in 1st waves. And for added protection keep a few MS in Transport TF (MS,DMS) Keep trying it takes a little practice to get invasions down smooth. A surface TF must be at the location every night the TF's are unloading to prevent enemy surface TF's from getting among transports. Fighters set to 100 feet on sweep missions will help supress the enemy ground troops

patrickl -> (10/22/2002 6:50:16 PM)
Hi, If I may add something: I think to prevent wanton destruction of your transport TFs, every transport TF would need at least 2, preferably 3 MSWs. If 1 got hit by mine and sank, the other 2 MSWs can continue to do their job. I tried to send Mine-sweeping TFs for invasion but not effective. I am open to ideas! :p Regards.

tanjman -> Amphibious Ops (10/22/2002 7:09:20 PM)
For what its worth, Here is how I do a multiple Division invasion (against the AI only so far, haven't had time for PBEM yet, but hope to soon). Note: Each Transport TF has all of my available DMS's assigned to them (usually 1-2 each) 1) Form 1 - 2 Minewarfare TFs composed of MSW only. 2) Form 1 - 2 Transport TFs per division assault wave (loaded only with Infantry, Assault Engineer/Pioneer only) 3) Form 1 - 2 Transport TFs for combat support units(loaded with Armor & Field Artillery only) 4) Form 1 - 2 Transport TFs for Division HQs and other support units (i.e. base forces, SeaBees, AA units etc...) 5) Form 1 - 2 Transport TFs loaded with supply only. All TFs are set to follow the senior TF (the TF with the best admiral, usually the one with the Corps or Division HQs) and are set to partol/do not retire so that they do not start unloading upon arrival. I do this so that I can unload the assault troops and some supply the first 1-3 days. It goes with out saying that I also have some Air Combat & Suface Combat TFs covering the invasion. Worked for me so far, have to see how it does vs PBEM. :D

Sonny -> (10/22/2002 8:24:03 PM)
[QUOTE]Originally posted by ADavidB [B]................................. One way to avoid getting ships that you don't want added in to an assault TF is to put them into some arbitrary TF ahead of time, then when your invasion TF is complete, disband the "dummy" TF. Dave Baranyi [/B][/QUOTE] This is the tacky (and tactical) BS that really pisses me off about the game. It is too much manipulating the game rather than playing the game.:mad:

Skyfire7631 -> Re: answers (10/22/2002 9:58:55 PM)
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mogami [B]Hi, Were you flying RECON??? before first try. You have to fly enough recon to raise the dectection level of the enemy at a base before seeing all of them. Are MS TF set to "DO NOT RETIRE"? Don't send any unit without a combat value in 1st waves. And for added protection keep a few MS in Transport TF (MS,DMS) Keep trying it takes a little practice to get invasions down smooth. A surface TF must be at the location every night the TF's are unloading to prevent enemy surface TF's from getting among transports. Fighters set to 100 feet on sweep missions will help supress the enemy ground troops [/B][/QUOTE] Hi Mogami, Yes I was flying recon missions : as I said, I made two weeks of airfields bombardement AND recon at the same time before launching the invasion. And yes, my Mine Warfare TF was set to "Patrol/Do not retire". I'll keep trying though ;) Regards.

mogami -> baffled (10/22/2002 10:11:28 PM)
Hi, I can't figure out what is happening. Dan and I (U2 is my most common opponent) both tend to ignore placing mines at friendly bases and mine straits and enemy bases. But I have no problem clearing these enemy mines (once they are discovered) out side of it usally costing one or two minesweepers. (for some reason when the last enemy mine is cleared a friendly minesweeper does it by running into it) Recon. I would only look at how experianced the pilots are and their altitude and weather. (It seems strange that 2 weeks of solid recon would not find 2/3's of the enemy) To be safe you can always land a sqd or two by sub to preform a patrol (they will be wiped out but you will know for sure what is facing you)

Skyfire7631 -> (10/22/2002 10:20:24 PM)
Well, the problem with the mines, apparently, is that they were not detected. So, anyone knows what it is the best way to detect mines (apart from having the whole transport TF sunk ;)) ? About recon : altitude was 20000 feet, weather was in general rather good, but I don't remember at all what was the experience of the crew. Regards.

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