FBD Units and Attached Construction Units (Full Version)

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Q-Ball -> FBD Units and Attached Construction Units (9/30/2011 5:45:45 PM)

I have tried an experiment recently. Each German FBD has several Construction Units attached to it, roughly 6 or 7 Battalions. These units are NOT dispatched to repair rail lines, and do not, as far as I can tell, help any

I picked one FBD, and re-assigned all the Construction Units to OKH, to see what would happen. This costs 1 AP of course per unit.

The result?

*There is no degradation in the ability of the FBD unit to repair rail
*The units I assigned to OKH are now also busily repairing rail lines (and presumably helping with fort construction too)

Conclusion:
-Re-Assign all Construction SUs from FBDs, if you want to actually use them

Am I off base here? Is this gamey? I only did it to one FBD so far.



heliodorus04 -> RE: FBD Units and Attached Construction Units (9/30/2011 6:26:58 PM)

Considering Soviet play advocates creating as many sapper regiments and RR regiments as you can as quickly as you can, this would not be considered gamey by any stretch at all. It costs AP.

I will do this henceforth - good idea.



Ketza -> RE: FBD Units and Attached Construction Units (9/30/2011 6:31:30 PM)

The FBD units have a lot of manpower.

Get em digging!



marty_01 -> RE: FBD Units and Attached Construction Units (9/30/2011 7:49:13 PM)

There is a reduction in RRV as a function of how many construction support units are initially "organic" to a given FBD unit. AND; you can’t attach or re-attach construction support units to an FBD unit. Once you have reduced the RRV via detachment of its organic construction units you can't raise it back-up again.

I want to say -- based on some of what I have seen during rail conversion\repair -- that RRV makes a difference in how far ahead of an active railhead you can convert\repair. And I am sure someone will be quick to quote the manual on this -- but I had asked this of Joel Billings’s many-many moons ago. Billings was of the opinion that RRV has never functioned the way it's described in the manual. I've actually experienced a number of instances where I was piggy-backing two FBDs on a critical line where I seemingly kept outrunning the threshold RRV of the FBD units. Moreover, I had the MPs to convert\repair a given line, but couldn’t as I think I was too far out in front of my active railhead.



heliodorus04 -> RE: FBD Units and Attached Construction Units (9/30/2011 8:29:25 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: marty_01

There is a reduction in RRV as a function of how many construction support units are initially "organic" to a given FBD unit. AND; you can’t attach or re-attach construction support units to an FBD unit. Once you have reduced the RRV via detachment of its organic construction units you can't raise it back-up again.

I want to say -- based on some of what I have seen during rail conversion\repair -- that RRV makes a difference in how far ahead of an active railhead you can convert\repair. And I am sure someone will be quick to quote the manual on this -- but I had asked this of Joel Billings’s many-many moons ago. Billings was of the opinion that RRV has never functioned the way it's described in the manual. I've actually experienced a number of instances where I was piggy-backing two FBDs on a critical line where I seemingly kept outrunning the threshold RRV of the FBD units. Moreover, I had the MPs to convert\repair a given line, but couldn’t as I think I was too far out in front of my active railhead.


I've noticed inexplicable inconsistencies in how far ahead I can go, too (1941).



chasman -> RE: FBD Units and Attached Construction Units (9/30/2011 10:11:58 PM)

Don't remove the SUs from a Soviet FBD though. I did that to one and the thing wouldn't repair at all.



bairdlander2 -> RE: FBD Units and Attached Construction Units (10/1/2011 2:42:35 AM)

What is the differance between an O.T. Construction unit and a regular one?



bairdlander2 -> RE: FBD Units and Attached Construction Units (10/1/2011 11:57:32 PM)

Maybe O.T means they work overtime?



OTZ -> RE: FBD Units and Attached Construction Units (10/2/2011 1:12:38 AM)

Organisation Todt. They were the Reich's civil engineers. The regular Construction Battalions would be the organic units of the Heer/SS. OT would be complementary to those units - bonus workers!



Q-Ball -> RE: FBD Units and Attached Construction Units (10/4/2011 11:38:45 PM)

QUICK UPDATE: DON'T DO THIS!!!!!!

It worked for me, until I removed the LAST Construction Unit. Now, my FBD is worthless. I will probably disband it and run with only 4.




heliodorus04 -> RE: FBD Units and Attached Construction Units (10/5/2011 12:29:56 AM)

OUCH!



CarnageINC -> RE: FBD Units and Attached Construction Units (10/5/2011 1:29:31 AM)

[X(] Did you do this in a pbem game? 



Farfarer61 -> RE: FBD Units and Attached Construction Units (10/5/2011 3:14:07 AM)

I guess the real question is what is the minimum number of Const/Labour Units that need to be attached to an FBD so that it can convert the 3 hexes ( 5 in the Baltic states)? In 42 I am hoping to pump Hiwis into these units and free up GE squads for otehr things - we will see.



Stoat -> RE: FBD Units and Attached Construction Units (10/5/2011 6:56:03 PM)

1) Great post, Q-Ball.
2) The German construction attachments (140 Construction Bns, 14 RAD Lbr Grps & 16 RAD Lbr Dets) may not be effectively utilised in their initial deployment. Most or all of them should be repairing rail for the first summer, after which the Corps should get some back to help dig in for the winter.
3) I think I recall in older patches some months ago that more Const units seemed to be building rail than with recent versions, not sure why...
4) ...except I might have read a rule change somewhere that Const units will not build rail within x hexes of the enemy (is this true?) but can't find the reference, could be mistaken.
5) It would be useful to know just how the ability of FBD/NKPS units to repair rail is related to their attachments.
6) Note that the FBD units do not all have the same attachments (if I'm counting right): while all 5 each have 4 Const Bns, FBD 1-3 each have in addition 3 RAD Lbr Grps while FBD 4 has 1 RAD Lbr Grp & 4 rad lbr dets and FBD 5 has 2 RAD Lbr Grps.
7) I think it would be well worth the 1 AP each to transfer Const attachments to higher HQ's to get more rail building out of it.
8) Maybe it would be best/cheapest to transfer those Const atts to OKH as soon as possible in Summer '41 (they will repair rail up to 90 hexes of OKH as per Rule 7.6.4), so in Fall/Winter '41 OKH can tour the front with its big bucket of Const Bns and reallocate them to the Corps for no AP cost, in a similar fashion as it seems necessary to do at the beginning of each Campaign Game with the rest of the German attachments (sigh).



Stoat -> RE: FBD Units and Attached Construction Units (10/5/2011 7:19:17 PM)

On my #5, in another thread (http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2920731) Helpless has said, "RRV value depends on the construction value of attached units".

Looking again at the '41 Campaign T1, 4 FBD's have a RRV ("Rail Repair Value") of 15 while the 5th (FBD 5 in the frozen 11th Army) has a RRV of only 11. I was surprised by this as I had always observed all FBD's to behave the same, using 3 Movement Points to repair rail (1 MP in Baltic Zone).

Taking another quick look, I was even more surprised to observe that while moving does consume an FBD's RRV, repairing rails does not!



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