Week 21 (Full Version)

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M60A3TTS -> Week 21 (11/20/2011 4:50:30 PM)

Week 21 completed.

We're through the mud phase, but are now slowed down by something different- namely Pelton's question on whether there is a bug related to partisan activity. Personally, I think it's simply reflecting the number of large partisan bands that I've generated. I can't tell what steps he's taken to reduce the partisan buildup, although I have seen a few attacks against them.

The evacuation of the Moscow Bulge was less of an issue than expected. The hard part is reorganising units from STAVKA and four fronts. Piles of units within the bulge made it virtually impossible to create a series of organized fronts again, so what I tried to do at a minimum was keep units of the same army stacked and in supply.

Moscow will likely fall I'm afraid. The main frontline is about 4 hexes east of Moscow and I have no doubt next turn, he'll flood the area with infantry to isolate the city. In a case like this, I really think Moscow should be able to resupply by air. The city has an airport, yes? Anybody recall the Berlin Airlift? If this was real life, I'd pack Moscow with 4-6 weeks of supplies, barricade the city and put top notch defenders there. Then come blizzard, relief forces would bust in. Stalingrad in reverse. But the game requires an airfield in clear terrain for resupply by air, and that won't hold against a determined German attack.

At least the Axis troops won't be heavily fortified in the Moscow area come blizzard. Pelton knows this, so he may or may not stick around. We'll see if a re-take Moscow operation is in the cards.

FWIW, 5th Guards Rifle Division is now in the Red Army OOB. [:)]




Baelfiin -> RE: Week 21 (11/20/2011 5:36:17 PM)

M60 i think you have a very good point in that major cities are too easy to take after they have been isolated for just one week. It should be that units are immune to isolation effects while in major cities, and that they can draw supply from the stockpiles that are allready existing there. Less of a chance to retreat when in a city(isolated or not) should be implemented as well.

Hang in there, almost payback time !!



M60A3TTS -> Week 22 (11/23/2011 10:59:06 PM)

Week 22- 13.11.41

With the arrival of snow, the situation turns grim as German forces north and south of Moscow close the ring. To the south, Rostov is similarly encircled.
One advantage of snow for the Soviets is that it allows the front commands to reestablish themselves.

In the far north, the Finns are maintaining a minimal presence. Opposite them, the Leningrad Front is receiving a steady influx of fresh troops.

Active manpower of Soviets vs. Germans now exceeds 2 million.

Administrative Notes:
Yury Novoselsky replaced as commander of 52nd Army by Issa Pliev.
60th and 61st Armies are activated under STAVKA. Aleksei Maslov of 60th Army replaced by Aleksandr Vasilevsky.

Moscow
[image]http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae272/eacarter2/PeltonMoscowT22.jpg[/image]

Rostov
[image]http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae272/eacarter2/PeltonT22Rostov.jpg[/image]

Leningrad
[image]http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae272/eacarter2/PeltonT22Leningrad.jpg[/image]

Production this week
[image]http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae272/eacarter2/PeltonT22production.jpg[/image]



M60A3TTS -> Week 23 (11/24/2011 6:17:27 PM)

Week 23- 20.11.41

Moscow and Rostov succumb to German attacks, with the defenders putting up very little resistance. Still, the front lines are close enough that the citizens know they can expect an attempt to liberate them as the weather is close to changing for the worse.

At Moscow
[image]http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/4535/peltont23moscow.png[/image]

At Rostov
[image]http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/3817/peltont23rostov.jpg[/image]

Despite these setbacks, the Red Army is forging ahead with plans for the winter offensive. The railroad bridge over the Donets southeast of Voroshilovgrad has been instrumental in allowing three new STAVKA armies to cross over to reinforce the units of Southern Front.

The fighting by Red Army units over the last several months continues to yield results. 109th , 297th and 303rd Rifle Divisions become 6th, 7th and 8th Guards Rifle Divisions.

Volkhov Front is formed and General Zhukov is put in command



Baelfiin -> RE: Week 23 (11/24/2011 6:37:32 PM)

Nice work on triage in limiting the damage!



M60A3TTS -> Week 24 (11/25/2011 4:23:01 AM)

Week 24- 27.11.41

In the Moscow area, the Germans don't appear ready for a long stay just like Napoleon. The battle lines move west and the Reserve Front finds itself back at the eastern outskirts of the city.
[image]http://img593.imageshack.us/img593/5361/peltonweek24moscow.jpg[/image]

The Volkhov Front
[image]http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/6250/peltont24volkhovfront.jpg[/image]

To the south, Rostov is liberated without a shot fired.
[image]http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/176/peltonweek24rostov.jpg[/image]

Axis forces launch a dozen or so attacks across the front in an effort to beat some Red Army units down.

Seven Soviet rifle divisions attain guards status, bringing the total to fifteen. The hardening of the Red Army with the numerous attacks against single Axis divisions is now paying off without having to wait for blizzard. STAVKA has also organized a number of tank battalions that will be assigned to the cavalry corps about to be formed. Each corps will receive two tank battalions and a motorcycle regiment. Operation Winter Wrath begins next week.



kevini1000 -> RE: Week 24 (11/25/2011 4:26:18 AM)

He most likely got what he wanted Army group A & B.



M60A3TTS -> Week 25 (11/25/2011 5:05:47 AM)

Week 25- 4.12.41

Operation Winter Wrath has begun. Konstantin Rokossovsky's 24th Army enters Moscow which has been abandoned by the retreating Germans. The enemy which occupied the city for two weeks is withdrawing quickly in the area, so there is no real opportunity for combat.
[image]http://img546.imageshack.us/img546/3188/peltonweek25moscow.jpg[/image]

Farther south near Stalino where the Axis winter line is considerably closer, Soviet forces advance to the west. Well to the east of Kharkov, Axis troops have no fortifications. so these units are attacked where possible.
[image]http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/9637/peltonweek25south.jpg[/image]

Advances also take place on the Leningrad Front to exert maximum pressure on the Axis forces.
[image]http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/3408/peltont25leningradfront.jpg[/image]

Four new guards rifle divisions are formed, bringing the total to 19. Second Shock Army is formed and rifle divisions assigned. They will not be committed to battle right away, but will occupy positions in the immediate area of Voronezh.



Flaviusx -> RE: Week 25 (11/25/2011 6:44:09 AM)

I'm surprised he abandoned Moscow. But I suppose he wasn't properly fortified on its flanks. Still, he could put some good units in there and shelter them from the blizzard and counterattack any penetrations north and south of them.

You might actually recover most of the manpower in there and get it repaired. With new multipliers, losing both Leningrad and Moscow drops you below 100k replacements/turn, so you want those bodies back.






M60A3TTS -> Week 26 (11/25/2011 6:40:09 PM)

Week 26- 11.12.41

The offensive continues to roll westward. There is not any action in the northern half of the map as Pelton continues to pull back to the west and avoid combat. In the area around Kharkov and to the south, there are more battles as it is closer to his winter line.

4 more rifle divisions became guards, for a total of 23. One cavalry division also became guards.

Moscow area
[image]http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/3032/peltonweek26moscow.jpg[/image]

East of Kharkov
[image]http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/4720/peltont26kharkov.jpg[/image]

Southern area
[image]http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/4052/peltonweek26south.jpg[/image]



TulliusDetritus -> RE: Week 26 (11/25/2011 9:31:21 PM)

After all, your summer campaign was really good. You harvested many guards [X(] When blizzard hit I only had ONE Guards Rifle Division.

P.S.: funny to see Pelton using "hill-billy-run-away-tactics" [:D] In his defence: at least he is not evacuating anything. Wait a minute... he has nothing to evacuate, except German HQs cocktail cabinets.



freeboy -> RE: Week 26 (11/26/2011 12:16:40 AM)

this will be a very interesting 42.. and,


I have been around a long time here , this might be the AAR I have enjoyed the most  ...
GREAT AAR guys on both sides, and a good idea of the game streangth and weaknesses... again BRAVO
I was also impressed with the detailed reporting found here.. conscise and easily understood....



kevini1000 -> RE: Week 26 (11/26/2011 4:43:40 AM)

Is he really using the best strategy for blizzard defense. He had all those units digging for several turns and it looks as though you will punch through that line in no time.



freeboy -> RE: Week 26 (11/26/2011 5:08:07 AM)

well, the Axis line is well away from the initial Soviet railheads.. marching to the lines and building rails.. I think this will not be a red army cakewalk.. I really am excited to see how this progresses



M60A3TTS -> RE: Week 26 (11/26/2011 12:38:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sath

Is he really using the best strategy for blizzard defense. He had all those units digging for several turns and it looks as though you will punch through that line in no time.


He clearly got his fort levels squashed in many cases when the bug quadrupled the rate decay, so that helped my cause. Even though it got fixed, that in combination with airfields no longer preventing fort decay means a generally weaker line. That said, since the line runs southeast to northwest, I am am able to get up to that winter line quickest in the south, and longest in the north. In fact he has so much ground to give farther north, it will likely mean I reach it in the last weeks of blizzard, when he'll get ready to start moving the other way.

The original game plan was to get 4 mobile armies through the line north of Stalino, but I modified that somewhat because of the time it takes to punch through and meantime these mobile armies sit idle. So I've shifted cavalry corps north to take on some of the more vulnerable units which are in the open. Meanwhile the new plan is to have the Causasus Front which is starting to get on line, eat away at the line to the far south.

I'm quite content with the fact there was no fight for Moscow. Clearly Pelton sees his mission accomplished there, having trashed the manpower. But as Flaviusx says, time will heal that wound. And the more Pelton withdraws west, the more distance between him and Moscow. I strongly suspect he'll make no attempt to retake it going forward. For him, it's a numbers game and he has been able to reduce the Soviet manpower numbers going into '42.



M60A3TTS -> RE: Week 26 (11/26/2011 12:57:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus

After all, your summer campaign was really good. You harvested many guards [X(] When blizzard hit I only had ONE Guards Rifle Division.

P.S.: funny to see Pelton using "hill-billy-run-away-tactics" [:D] In his defence: at least he is not evacuating anything. Wait a minute... he has nothing to evacuate, except German HQs cocktail cabinets.


This game has been really two, mine and Pelton's. By that I mean, we've each had a set of goals and to a considerable extent we've both been satisfied with the results. Certainly losing Moscow was not in my plans, but preserving the Red Army and evacuating arms factories were my two goals accomplished.

He got Moscow which I didn't expect mainly because he attacked for so long relative to his earlier games. In those, he stopped early and went into winter quarters. Here he pressed on.

Meantime, while he was desperately seeking the elusive arms factories, I was gang tackling his lone infantry divisions in the Donbas with entire armies to build up the wins and get guards in the pipeline. In a few cases I was getting a dozen wins in a week. Multiply that by the number of divisions employed in the task, and you can see the opportunity that presents. Right now I have about half the guards rifle divisions I initially want. My goal there is to have a little over 50. Then by combining two guards with one non-guards in a rifle corps, I should have over 25 guards rifle corps. They will come in quite handy if and when the initiative passes over to the Red Army.



M60A3TTS -> Week 27 (11/26/2011 1:39:08 PM)

Week 27- 18.12.41

Good news across the entire front can be reported.

The first Axis surrender of the war. The isolated Finnish 8th Coastal Brigade with its back to the frozen Lake Ladoga is attacked and forced to surrender.
[image]http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae272/eacarter2/PeltonWeek27Finnsurrender.jpg[/image]

In the Moscow sector, the Germans continue to pull back. The Red Army advances to the west unopposed.
[image]http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae272/eacarter2/PeltonT27Moscow.jpg[/image]

In the area of Stalino, our forces are beginning to work on cracking the Axis winter line.
[image]http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae272/eacarter2/Week27Peltonsouth.jpg[/image]

In the Crimea, Soviet 51st Army is pushing a disorganized Rumanian defense force back.
[image]http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae272/eacarter2/PeltonT27Crimea.jpg[/image]

Tula is liberated.

The Red Army celebrated the creation of two new guards rifle divisons (24th and 25th) and one cavalry division (2nd).
39th, 46th, 3rd and 4th Shock Armies are activated.

In the field of industrial production, arms stockpiles now exceed 200k and are growing. They will grow faster as the arms multiplier increases in two weeks.



M60A3TTS -> Moscow Industrial Losses (11/26/2011 4:18:08 PM)

For the record, here is what industrial capacity was lost in Moscow and environs when it fell. The most serious loss was IL-2 production. Pe-2 losses were bad too, but their contribution to the war effort is questionable. Overall, it could have been worse.

Khimki
3 Li-2VP (100% total production)

N Moscow
19 IL-2
24 MiG-3 (prod ceased Dec 41)

W Moscow
5 vehicle
24 MiG-3 (prod ceased Dec 41)

Moscow
7 arms (bringing total loss to 45 of 370- 12% of total production)
9 ** Yak-7A (50% total production)
19 U-2VS (OH NO!! too bad he didn’t get more [;)])
24 MiG-3 (prod ceased Dec 41)
19 IL-2 (with loss of N Moscow, 58% total production)
30 Pe-2 (50% total production)
3 Pe-2R (50% total production)
23 **IL-10 (Jan 1945)
10 Pe-3 (100% total production)
9 Heavy Industry



Klydon -> RE: Moscow Industrial Losses (11/26/2011 4:42:47 PM)

Pe-2s are a serious loss, especially on the recon front and it is for one simple reason: range.

Pe-2s might be inferior to IL-2s as far as weapons, etc but the one thing they have in spades over an IL-2 is range. Pe-2 units in FITE were absolute gold. The recon units with Pe-2R's blow away the biplane recon forces in capability.

Overall, a fair amount of tactical planes you won't get, which will likely hurt mid game in terms of cracking German lines.



Flaviusx -> RE: Moscow Industrial Losses (11/26/2011 5:42:00 PM)

You got the Li2s out at least, so your transport arm is preserved for the future. Given how sloppy Pelton is with respect to partisan security, that matters. These guys can drop triple the amount of supplies that conventional level bombers do and have a huge range.

You're going to have to rely heavily on fighter bombers for missions other than CAP. Your tac took a big hit. Fighter bombers aren't bad for interdiction, btw. They mostly haven't got the juice for ground support or attack missions, alas, this is where losing the shturmoviks and Pe-2s hurt. And losing half the Pe-2Rs also sucks, you can stretch out the SB2 recon planes for long time, but they'll run out eventually.

Piece of advice: once you hit your guards cap (and you're doing great here with respect to that) stop. If that means stopping earlier than usual, which is entirely possible here given the head start you've got, so be it. The transtion over to snow is pretty rough now and the earlier you start digging in the better. I don't think February yields a whole lot of returns nowadays anyhow. The blizzard counteroffensive for all practical purposes is now a 2 month deal.



M60A3TTS -> Week 28 (11/26/2011 10:33:05 PM)

Week 28- 25.12.41

In the area of Leningrad, the Axis fort line is encountered, and manned by the Finns. 4th Shock Army is being brought up into the area.
[image]http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae272/eacarter2/PeltonT28Leningrad.jpg[/image]

In the Moscow sector, the lines continue to roll west. Red Army units find themselves on the outskirts of Rzhev and Kaluga.
[image]http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae272/eacarter2/PeltonT28Moscow.jpg[/image]

In the Orel-Kursk region, Soviet forces are 60 miles from Orel and 30 from Kursk. 2nd and 3rd Shock Armies are advancing towards Kursk now.
[image]http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae272/eacarter2/PeltonT28Orel-Kursk.jpg[/image]

In the Stalino sector, elements of 18th and 52nd Armies fight their way into Gorlovka.
[image]http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae272/eacarter2/PeltonTurn28Stalino.jpg[/image]

In the Crimea, as in the area of Leningrad, Axis fortifications are encountered.

Well to the rear in the Stalingrad sector, defenses are going in. Many of the brigades are shells, but will be filled once the blizzard season is down to a couple weeks remaining.
[image]http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae272/eacarter2/PeltonWeek28Stalingrad.jpg[/image]

Two Soviet rifle divisions attain guards status, 26th and 27th. 11 more rifle divisions remain eligible for guards status.
The commander of Northwest Air Command, Aleksei Ionov (air rating 4) has been executed and replaced by Stepan Rybalchenko (air rating 5).



Flaviusx -> RE: Week 28 (11/27/2011 12:39:52 AM)

Guards cap goes up in 1942, you'll be able to get more to flip over.




freeboy -> RE: Week 28 (11/27/2011 4:52:29 AM)

what is cap in42?



76mm -> RE: Week 28 (11/27/2011 7:04:50 AM)

As far as I know you can't use Pe-2s for recon in this game...



M60A3TTS -> Week 29 (11/27/2011 10:58:34 AM)

Here is the aircraft production screen from the start of turn 29. I have a pretty good pool of Pe-2s at present. IL-2s not so much.

[image]http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae272/eacarter2/Untitled.jpg[/image]



KenchiSulla -> RE: Moscow Industrial Losses (11/27/2011 11:20:13 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

For the record, here is what industrial capacity was lost in Moscow and environs when it fell. The most serious loss was IL-2 production. Pe-2 losses were bad too, but their contribution to the war effort is questionable. Overall, it could have been worse.

Khimki
3 Li-2VP (100% total production)

N Moscow
19 IL-2
24 MiG-3 (prod ceased Dec 41)

W Moscow
5 vehicle
24 MiG-3 (prod ceased Dec 41)

Moscow
7 arms (bringing total loss to 45 of 370- 12% of total production)
9 ** Yak-7A (50% total production)
19 U-2VS (OH NO!! too bad he didn’t get more [;)])
24 MiG-3 (prod ceased Dec 41)
19 IL-2 (with loss of N Moscow, 58% total production)
30 Pe-2 (50% total production)
3 Pe-2R (50% total production)
23 **IL-10 (Jan 1945)
10 Pe-3 (100% total production)
9 Heavy Industry



Pe-2s are decent for airfield attack. I am using them as much as possible vs Heliodorus as they are less vulnerable then the SB-2s. Your aircraft production took quite the hit which will probably hurt you in the long term.



M60A3TTS -> Week 29 (11/28/2011 3:11:30 AM)

Week 29- 1.1.42

In the Moscow sector, Rzhev and Kaluga are liberated again without resistance as the Germans continue to move west.
[image]http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae272/eacarter2/PeltonT29Moscow.jpg[/image]

Soviet forces conduct 24 attacks, resulting in 20 retreats, 3 held, 1 rout. Only two of these were north of Kursk.
[image]http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae272/eacarter2/PeltonT29south.jpg[/image]

Progress has been fine land-wise, but with the advance outrunning the railheads to a considerable degree, even at week 5 of 12 blizzard turns, the Red Army may not be in a position to advance much further. Attrition is also showing up in the troop strengths, as well as considerable fatigue.

Only one guards rifle division is created this week, for a total of 28.

Partisans blew up 8 hexes worth of rail. I'm sure that is causing considerable anxiety back at the Wolfschanze.

Here is a snapshot of two of the most successful armies, both of the Volkhov Front.
[image]http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae272/eacarter2/PeltonT2916thArmy.jpg[/image]
[image]http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae272/eacarter2/PeltonT2938thArmy.jpg[/image]



M60A3TTS -> Week 30 (11/29/2011 2:51:20 AM)

Week 30- 8.1.42

The general offensive continues. In the north, Soviet troops sweep over the Valdai Hills.
[image]http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae272/eacarter2/PeltonWeek30ValdaiHills.jpg[/image]

There is no letup west of Moscow, as the Red Army presses forward en masse. Soviet troops are now 20 miles from Vyazma.
[image]http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae272/eacarter2/PeltonT30Moscow.jpg[/image]

Near Kursk-Belgorod, a series of attacks by 16th and 38th Armies of Bagramyan and now General-Armii Sokolovsky create the makings of a possible break. Each of those armies is sitting around 50 victories now. It appears that Pelton has dissolved the winter line, so now his troops are without cover in blizzard, save for some key cities.
[image]http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae272/eacarter2/PeltonT30KurskBelgorod.jpg[/image]

In the south, Pelton launches a series of counterattacks. Troops of the Southern and Caucasus Fronts respond with a flurry of their own to keep the pressure on Stalino.
[image]http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae272/eacarter2/PeltonT29south.jpg[/image]

A comparison of casualties during the blizzard offensive.
[image]http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae272/eacarter2/Casualtiesweek25to30.jpg[/image]

29th and 30th Gds. Rifle Divisions are formed. The Transcaucasus Front has been released for service against the fascist invaders.
In partisan activity, 11 rail hexes are disrupted.



Q-Ball -> RE: Week 30 (11/29/2011 4:57:25 AM)

I am surprised he just gave up the Valdai Hills. Those are an excellent defensive position, and real tough for the Soviets to make headway, even in the Blizzard.

On the flip side, he is holding fast around the Donbas, and getting smacked in clear terrain, it seems.

He is also exposing Forts to attack. I know some have other thoughts on this, but for my part, I hate losing Fort Zones; easy POWs for the Soviets.

Try and get some ZOC locks on the troops near Belgorod; if you can do that, you're really in business



Flaviusx -> RE: Week 30 (11/29/2011 6:28:10 AM)

Pelton seems more concerned with neat lines than taking advantage of terrain features.

However by the end of January those guys in the south will be running out of gas. It's going to be hard to press the thing past that, and indeed positively dangerous to do so.

Piece of advice: train, train, train. And to properly train, units need to be well in the rear, 10+ hexes from the front. I think this is something a lot of Soviet players aren't doing. They just shove everything up to the front and go to town. The combat efficiency of anything with less than about 45 morale is bad, and a large fraction of the divisional reinforcements from the east arrive with morale in the 30s. These guys have no business being anywhere near the front. In the crisis period of summer 41, you have no choice sometimes but to throw them in to battle and they get throttled in the process.

During the blizzard you need only commit your veteran and well trained units. There's not enough room on the front to fit everybody in there, and this is partially what's leading to nastiness during the snow: routs for lack of retreat paths, and poor morale units. This just lets the German run up the score.

The German is going to push you back in 42. So you have to contrive to lower your retreat losses. Pelton may choose to turtle up, but don't count on that. And it's going to very difficult to prevent the Axis from gaining back a decent chunk of the terrain lost during the blizzard when the snows arrive, which further lessens the possibility of a turtle.

By summer of 42 these guys should have tolerable morale. (The craptastic NM cap in 42 will limit things, alas.)






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