Disaster in the making. Oloren (axis) vs Terje (USSR)

Disaster in the making. Oloren (axis) vs Terje (USSR) (Full Version)

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terje439 -> Disaster in the making. Oloren (axis) vs Terje (USSR) (10/8/2011 2:19:03 PM)
This will probably be a "how not to run the USSR" pbem game. Long Campaign 41-45. Settings FOW (but not movent fog of war) Non-Random weather non locked HQ support These settings seemed fine to us as we are both rather new to this game both having played through the shorter campaigns as well as one 41-45 game as the Axis. Oloren has kindly agreed not to visit this AAR. So. What are my goals? Well long time goal is to visit Berlin, but that will require alot to come together. Some luck, some skill and maximized use of the winter. Short time goals is to get as much of my armed forces to safety as possible, however this must not be something I get a target fixation on, as I will need to sacrifce troops to buy time. I do not expect to be able to hold back the Finnish, so I will try to make a Sir Robin up north to save the troops from anihilation. However since this will be my first game as the USSR, things are bound to get FUBAR sooner rather than later I'm afraid. Edit As the game is over, Oloren is ofc allowed inside. Terje

terje439 -> RE: Disaster in the making. Oloren (axis) vs Terje (USSR) (10/8/2011 5:53:46 PM)
So, war has commenced. My opponent encircled alot of troops, but the ring does not look too closed. Maybe a break out can succeed? [image]local://upfiles/11504/F54EBC062C6244FF8D569075717E93E0.gif[/image]

terje439 -> RE: Disaster in the making. Oloren (axis) vs Terje (USSR) (10/8/2011 5:54:52 PM)
But as our few remaining scout airplanes soon find out, the ring to the north is better contained than initially believed. In the south we tried to break the ring but was unable to do so. [image]local://upfiles/11504/328DC699BF0240BDABDDE81585D9A35E.jpg[/image]

terje439 -> RE: Disaster in the making. Oloren (axis) vs Terje (USSR) (10/8/2011 5:57:16 PM)
Talking about our remaining aircrafts. Our airfields have been bombed, but not to the extent that we feared. We sent our remaining bombers up in the air today, bombing various ground units, as well as going for the oilfields in Rumania. [image]local://upfiles/11504/6B857EA8F0204FF2AEED237766F46EEB.gif[/image]

Ketza -> RE: Disaster in the making. Oloren (axis) vs Terje (USSR) (10/8/2011 5:58:07 PM)
It could have been much worse in the south several nice divisions of yours have been spared from the noose.

terje439 -> RE: Disaster in the making. Oloren (axis) vs Terje (USSR) (10/8/2011 6:00:12 PM)
We finally give some orders to our ground forces. The isoltaed forces are ordered to take the strongest possible location and remain there, but also to spread out to force the enemy to make more attacks and hence slow him down. Only one attack is ordered. If we manage to scatter the enemy SEC troop, we force him to use frontline troops to garrison captured cities. The result was a mere retreat. The decision is made to retreat from the Rumanian border and into better positions behind our many rivers to the east. This is basically the story all around, with some units being left behind to slow down the enemy panzers. We can sort of see the fronts starting to form, but I fear we are in for a though fight before winter gives us some breathing space. [image]local://upfiles/11504/A33352AC97C7481C82B5D602ED490FC4.gif[/image]

terje439 -> RE: Disaster in the making. Oloren (axis) vs Terje (USSR) (10/8/2011 6:03:57 PM)
So to sum up turn 1; -our airforce was hit but not to the expected degree. -we tried to open the southern pocket but failed miserably -we will fall back to better positions and try to slow down the enemy -every free unit has been railed towards the front -we bombed the Rumanian oilfields, to what effect we do not know -our enemy stopped just east of Riga in the north, not taking the city

terje439 -> RE: Disaster in the making. Oloren (axis) vs Terje (USSR) (10/8/2011 6:05:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ketza It could have been much worse in the south several nice divisions of yours have been spared from the noose. Indeed, now all I have to do is find some sound use for them :) Thanks for commenting. Might be fun to watch all my mistakes as the game keeps going [;)] Terje

Encircled -> RE: Disaster in the making. Oloren (axis) vs Terje (USSR) (10/8/2011 6:11:12 PM)
Airbase attacks on Turn 1 seem to do a lot less damage under this patch, though I have seen people hit 4,000

Ketza -> RE: Disaster in the making. Oloren (axis) vs Terje (USSR) (10/8/2011 6:13:35 PM)
When pocketed as Soviet with no hope for rescue your best move is to spread out and flip as many hexes as possible. Nuisance attacks wont help you. Flipping hexes to suck his MPs will however. Concentrating pocketed hopeless troops should never concentrate it makes them easier to kill utilizing less mps.

terje439 -> RE: Disaster in the making. Oloren (axis) vs Terje (USSR) (10/8/2011 6:13:43 PM)
On the one 41 campaign game I played against the AI easy mode to learn a thing or two), I took out 4000 something, so I was expecting something like 3500-4000 for sure. Not complaining though [;)] Terje

terje439 -> RE: Disaster in the making. Oloren (axis) vs Terje (USSR) (10/8/2011 6:16:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ketza When pocketed as Soviet with no hope for rescue your best move is to spread out and flip as many hexes as possible. Nuisance attacks wont help you. Flipping hexes to suck his MPs will however. Yes, that was sort of what I expected. I made a few attacks only; -to try to break the southern pocket -to try to disband the SEC unit (this seems like a no brainer to me, it has low combat value and I could attack it with 4 units) After that, I spread out leaving only one unit per hex to the best of my ability [:)] Terje

terje439 -> RE: Disaster in the making. Oloren (axis) vs Terje (USSR) (10/8/2011 8:19:42 PM)
Turn 2 The German onslaught continues (no surprises here). A new pocket is created, and the Germans wisely decided to not waste time to kill all my allready trapped units at once. For some strange reason Riga is not attacked now either, so we are able to withdraw some more units northwards. Nor did the AGN head for Leningrad, instead they turned east. At the moment there are no German units near the southernmost "no Finnish move"-line. [image]local://upfiles/11504/D638975740644CAAB2065C80BE69EC9E.gif[/image]

terje439 -> RE: Disaster in the making. Oloren (axis) vs Terje (USSR) (10/8/2011 8:21:36 PM)
Turn 2 losses Our losses are growing, however they are not as big as expected after turn 1. Still, we need to replace alot of units. 4 of my lost fortresses were disbanded by me instead of letting them be killed by the enemy. [image]local://upfiles/11504/DF08BBCA39CC409CB67E6D201B6B8D24.gif[/image]

terje439 -> RE: Disaster in the making. Oloren (axis) vs Terje (USSR) (10/8/2011 8:27:27 PM)
Turn 2 overall We continue to try to make a front that we can defend. But the front is long, and our forces are dvindling fast, and due to the constant lack of points, we can only produce one inf or cav division per turn. We moved a total of 6 factories east, this is nowhere near enough, and we will indeed lose a few factories the upcoming turn. More trains are desperately needed. This turn we moved 4 armament and 2 HI factories from Kiev. I will keep some units in the Pripjet-Marshes to force the enemy to move into that dreaded area which will slow down some of his units. My main concern at the moment is the central part of my front, but unless he has moved all his construction units into one line, he should soon see some supply issues at that part. Still, I really need alot more units if we are to survive. However these are needed at the front, as I also need my trains to move my factories. Decisions, decisions, decisions... [image]local://upfiles/11504/D31FCFA2A416477A85BA9C66CAA88CFE.gif[/image]

terje439 -> RE: Disaster in the making. Oloren (axis) vs Terje (USSR) (10/9/2011 2:28:26 AM)
Turn 3 Overall Not sure what to make of the game so far. The German assault keeps up its high pace, and that is really worrying. We have however finally made it to the major rivers, and hope to be able to bog him down there. For now we are defending with an avaerage dept of 1.5 units per "horisontal line", this is not enough. Any unit available was attempted broken down into brigades, unfortunately non was able to do so. For the moment I want to create as many units as possible to allow me to pull back some of our more potent units to form a few assault stacks, but for now that is a far fetched dream. Industry No real worries for the moment, we withdrew factories from Odessa, Kiev and Nikolaev this turn. Fortunately our rail capacity is increasing allowing us more flexibility. 5 new Inf Divs arrived from the east, and they were promptly placed on trains and sent towards the front. Units As allready mentioned, 5 new divisions arrived in the east, some more arrived arround Moscow, and several units were unfrozen this turn. Apart from that, we used our CP to order the creation of 2 AT regiments as well as one AA regiment. Worries More units are desperately needed. With most of our units having a CV of 1, we need numbers instead. If I can place 3 units in depth along the front, I would be much happier, but alas that seems a far fetched dream right now. [image]local://upfiles/11504/FA7B5FE6C3694813B5C08E537DA172BA.gif[/image]

terje439 -> RE: Disaster in the making. Oloren (axis) vs Terje (USSR) (10/9/2011 7:14:11 AM)
Turn 4 Overall Finally the initial German surge came to an end. They did however manage to cross my river line far just north of the Pripjet Marshes. The defensive strength was reported at 44, and only 3 hexes close to it from which I could launch an attack. Several bombers flew, but to no avail, we failed to dislodge the Mech Inf Div. Alot of new divisions were freed up/arrived from the east. They are badly needed. Furthermore we sent out alot of aerial units from the national reserve to boost our airforce which is badly underperfoming at the moment. Not that I expect this to help much, as alot of those airframes are old and obsolete planes flown by pilots with low morale, but at this point any boost is needed. Industry Factories were moved from Nikolaev and Kirovgrad which both have seen all their factories railed out. We also started to move factories away from Krivoi Rog, but another turn is needed to finish the evacuation from this city as we have one factory remaining. That would have cost us 5000 railcapacity and we were left with 4903...Bummer. Units Alot of units arrived this turn, and we order them into the grinder. On several positions we now have a 3 unit deep defence so things are looking up for the moment, but I doubt it will last. We have also managed to pull a total of seven 4+ CV armor and Mech Inf divisions somewhat back. Hopefully I can bolster this number by a few more divisions. This will form my "firebrigade" which I fear will be badly needed. Actually the hope/dream is to have atleast 4 such groupings, but we are nowhere near that yet. We started our withdrawal on the Finnish Front. Hopefully we can pull most if not all those units back behind the no Finnish attack line. We also created a barrier of fortified areas all along the southern side of the No Finnish Attack Line to the east of Leningrad to halt the Fins from advancing into our rear. Some of the units of the initial German pocket are still alive, and have started an invasion of Rumania and Hungary. They are bound to be killed rather soon, but it forces the enemy to pursue them in the wrong direction. Worries Despite intensive recon flights, there are ALOT of German units unaccountet for. This is a major concern. What are they up to? The effect of my recon pilots is also a concern. No matter how many times I recon a unit I will never get a DL higher than 4. This is not enough really, as I need more information to be able to get a clearer picture of the German intentions. Another worry is that I am constantly low on CP, and I really need to reorganize basically my entire army. This is not good. Should I not produce an Inf Div in order to change the HQ of 8-15 low quality units? [image]local://upfiles/11504/E58504102644493AB1399FD7E85D50BB.gif[/image]

Aurelian -> RE: Disaster in the making. Oloren (axis) vs Terje (USSR) (10/9/2011 11:29:42 AM)
Don't build any Inf divisions. You have no need to, 18.1.1.1. REBUILDING DESTROYED SOVIET COMBAT UNITS Soviet Rifle, Motorized and Tank divisions that are destroyed prior to November 1941 will be added to the reinforcement schedule to re-enter as empty or nearly empty units after a certain number of turns with placement on the eastern part of the map per section 18.1.1 regarding previously destroyed units. Soviet Rifle and Motorized divisions will return as Rifle divisions from 4 to 27 turns after being destroyed. Soviet Tank divisions will return as Soviet Tank brigades eleven turns after being destroyed. In addition, routed Soviet Tank Divisions that rally prior to September 1941 have a twenty percent chance of being automatically disbanded and returned as reinforcement Tank brigades eleven turns later. Don't build any cav either. Save the ones you have for the winter offensive. (IIRC, you can combine them into Cav Corps. Add a sapper regiment to them.) Bombing cities. CAP and flak will make this a really bad idea. Make sure your cities have a division in each hex. Before you move the factory, look at the end production date. Like the Mig factories in Moscow. They only produce for a short time, and don't upgrade. So leave them. Look at any factory that has ** and check the start production date. If it's far enough in the future, just move one or two. IIRC, they'll regenerate over time. (Dont want to say that's definate as my memory fails me.) Your arms factories are far more important than heavy industry. So if you have to make a choice, move them first. As for support units, everyone disbands motorcycle regiments. Building SUs? The building fort rules have changed, but the RR Construction brigades are the #1 build. IMHO anyway. "We also created a barrier of fortified areas all along the southern side of the No Finnish Attack Line to the east of Leningrad to halt the Fins from advancing into our rear." You don't need those as the Finns can't cross that line until Leningrad falls. (Disregard that sentence, I was wrong.) And if it does fall, they won't matter.

76mm -> RE: Disaster in the making. Oloren (axis) vs Terje (USSR) (10/9/2011 11:43:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aurelian You don't need those as the Finns can't cross that line until Leningrad falls. Eh? Of course they can cross the line, they just can't ATTACK across the line, so you need to occupy the line with something.

Aurelian -> RE: Disaster in the making. Oloren (axis) vs Terje (USSR) (10/9/2011 11:46:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: 76mm quote: ORIGINAL: Aurelian You don't need those as the Finns can't cross that line until Leningrad falls. Eh? Of course they can cross the line, they just can't ATTACK across the line, so you need to occupy the line with something. Oops :) OK, that's a good place for those NKVD regiments.

terje439 -> RE: Disaster in the making. Oloren (axis) vs Terje (USSR) (10/9/2011 1:50:29 PM)
Thank you guys for posting. My take on the points raised; -it is better to spend some CP to build fortified regions on the no Finnish attack line as this frees up units for the real front -bombing cities. Well I suffered almost no losses, but I have no idea if I did any damage -building units. True, however I need units now, not in 4-11 turns. The idea was to try to seriously delay the Germans on the riverline to gain precious time. -Garrisoning cities. Yup, allready placing units in cities 2-3 turns away from the front just in case -about factory moving. This is very useful info. Thank you very much [&o] But why do I need the railroad construction units? I thought that was for when I started kicking the Germans back into Europe? Any advice is carefully read and truely apreciated [&o] Terje

cpt flam -> RE: Disaster in the making. Oloren (axis) vs Terje (USSR) (10/9/2011 2:43:10 PM)
RR units are your friend to dig don't try to form a line with NKVD III as they will disband not so bad or the time

Aurelian -> RE: Disaster in the making. Oloren (axis) vs Terje (USSR) (10/9/2011 3:24:34 PM)
The airborne units stacked 3 to a hex are good diggers. IIRC, they can be made into Guards Rifles in 42 Don't lose the airborne units. IIRC they don't come back. Guards Rifle Division (March 1942): Three Airborne Brigades can buildup into a rifle division, which will automatically be given Guards status. Airborne brigades may not buildup with any other type of unit. You can just hold the No Attacck line wih Fortified Zones. But they are expensive in APs. So maybe manning the line with weak units? On general principles for SUs, get the biggest bang for the AP cost that you can. (Build a RR Constr Brigade instead of a Construction Batallion.) http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2882717 for a list.

terje439 -> RE: Disaster in the making. Oloren (axis) vs Terje (USSR) (10/9/2011 4:25:33 PM)
Ok thx guys. Just to be clear, when you say dig, you mean fortify? Or am I missing something here? Terje

terje439 -> RE: Disaster in the making. Oloren (axis) vs Terje (USSR) (10/9/2011 5:39:17 PM)
Turn 5 Overall Bad goes to worse. There is not other way to describe this turn. In fact it turns so bad that a new defensive doctrine has to be used. It is also clear that Leningrad will fall sooner rather than later. Our airforce continues to be a non-factor. When ordered to bomb a unit, they send in the planes 1 by 1, doing no damage or being shot down. Industry Due to the threat to Leningrad, all our rail capacity this turn is used to extract factories from here. All that remains are the HI factories, some BT factories and a few KV1 factories. If the rail network is open next turn, the last of the industry here will be extracted, but that might be hoping for too much, we will see. Units Some new units arrive in the east, but we cannot get them west this turn due to the heavy use of our rails by the leningrad factories. Worries All over the place... The north is more or less gone, and it now seems very likely that the USSR will not survive this ordeal. King Winter is still far away, and we are being forced back on almost every front. Our 1CV units have nothing to say against the excellent defensive values of the Wehrmacht, so when they pierce a line we are unable to turn them back. The defense around Leningrad is crumbling away, and I doubt it will stand for long. As you can see, the line defense is no longer an option, so a delaying defense is all we can do for now. We need more mountains, marshes and big rivers! [image]local://upfiles/11504/C0B8A97799CC4B15A275ED800269753A.jpg[/image]

Aurelian -> RE: Disaster in the making. Oloren (axis) vs Terje (USSR) (10/9/2011 7:18:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: terje439 Ok thx guys. Just to be clear, when you say dig, you mean fortify? Or am I missing something here? Terje Units that don't move start raising the fort level of a hex. (Don't know how many equals how fast they do it. But I know German units are better at it.) They don't cost any APs to make, nor do you lose the men and such when you're pushed out as you do with a Fortified Zone.

terje439 -> RE: Disaster in the making. Oloren (axis) vs Terje (USSR) (10/9/2011 9:01:29 PM)
Turn 6 Overall In Norwegian there is a song which roughly translated goes something like "you shall have a day tomorrow with blank sheets and creyons too". This is such a day. The panzers ran out of fuel before reaching Leningrad, and we only lost a few troops this turn. A good turn indeed. Although we are still pushed back, and some more cities are lost this turn. I did however make a mistake this turn, but that will have to stand. The enemy units in the south seem to be gaining their supply from one single RR, so I tried to move one of the units hiding in the Pripjet out to cut that rail, but I ran into a hiding SEC unit, so I guess that is a lost cause now. And before you ask, yes there were recons flown in the area 10 hexes in the immediate area was scouted but to no avail. Industry With the halted panzers off the doors of Leningrad, we are able to withdraw the last of our factories there, and we start to withdraw our factories in Dneproprtovsk, but we did not have the capacity to withdraw it all, so I will probably have to spell that name again for the next turn. Units With only few units lost, we actually saw an increase in number of units in the field this turn. Precious rail capacity is spent getting them from the east towards the front. I have now managed to get together 5 stacks of armor/mech with a cv value per stack in the ranges of 15-20. These troops are to be given first choice in women and vodka! Worries My airforce. It simply is no good. Had this been any of the other GG games I've played, I would have gathered them all together and try to make one large number strike, but here they fly out 1-4 planes at a time and are chewed up. It also bodes bad that even the Me110 is able to inflict losses to my planes... [image]local://upfiles/11504/5CDA90F656614029BBC8C900265BBD27.jpg[/image]

terje439 -> RE: Disaster in the making. Oloren (axis) vs Terje (USSR) (10/10/2011 8:03:19 AM)
Turn 7 Overall It seems we took those blank sheets from yesterday and coloured them all black. The enemy is within Leningrad, and we have no choice but to let him have it, there simply are no forces available for the defence. Our defences all along the front are springing leaks. It makes me feel like the famous Dutch Boy... Moscow is now threathened as well, and it seems it will fall. Hopefully we will be able to keep the city for a few more turns as that is how long we need to save the factories there, but I am not optimistic. We try to force the enemy back across thee Dnepr in the south as they have made a beachhead on the east side. It failed miserably. Industry The factories in Dneproprtovsk have now all been moved. Next in line is Moscow. Units We gain as many divisions as we lose this turn, but that is not really a good exchange since those new units arrive in the east and need rail capacity to get to the front with haste. Worries Not enough CV anywhere, and even when we are given a superiority we end up losing the battles. Another worry is the very succesful enemy interdiction attacks, and those are plentyful. I am at a crossroads, I need some time to consider if I am to let Moscow fall and stop my reinforcements to the east of the city to forma new line, allowing my units time to dig in. [image]local://upfiles/11504/969E932366274B31BDFFE378A585C47E.jpg[/image]

terje439 -> RE: Disaster in the making. Oloren (axis) vs Terje (USSR) (10/10/2011 11:59:11 PM)
Turn 8 Overall Well another good turn in that the German advance is down to a crawl. We also see our first offensive victory of the war. Alot of time and CPs are spent as we start to reorganize our armies. This is however something that will not be finished untill next turn. I find myself starting each turn by looking at the date figuring out how many turns I need to keep the enemy back untill mud and eventually winter sets in. We are still a long way from those marvelous times. Industry We moved all factories in Khimki, and we started to move factories in Western Moscow. Troops Only two divisions were lost this turn, so we gain 5 divisions in net total. These are good numbers. Alot of railroad construction units were formed, and time was spent handing out artillery and sappers to units in their alloted defensive positions. This does not include frontline units, but units digging in in various cities and in the approaches to Crimea. Worries Nothing really pops out, it seems a layered defense forcing the enemy from one ZoC to another works better in the north than a proper front. Hopefully I can manage to get some reserves down south as the entire Axis Southern Front is held by Rumanians. If this does not change, then that is where we will strike in winter. [image]local://upfiles/11504/C9526107065C4332A2A58B50533C77E3.jpg[/image]

terje439 -> RE: Disaster in the making. Oloren (axis) vs Terje (USSR) (10/11/2011 3:38:48 PM)
Turn 9 Overall The Germans crawl towards Moscow, but also threathen Bryansk and Tula. The reorganization of our armies are now almost complete, just a few more HQs that needs to be moved into position. Another successfull attak on German units across the Dnepr in the South, and our Invasion Force Hungary is finally defeated. Industry We finish moving the factories in Western Moscow, and we start to move factories from Bryansk. Troops A net gain of 9 divisions this turn, so our strength is growing. Worries It seems very likely that we are about to lose alot of factories unless we are extremely lucky. The main worry is that even if we hold out this turn, we still will not have enough rail capacity to empty Tula, Bryanks, the village NE of Bryansk and Moscow next turn, this is a 4-5 turn project atleast. The question then becomes what to salvage, unless someone says otherwise, the withdrawal order of my factories will be; 1. Factories producing specific units (like MiG3 etc), from my understanding I need to salvage 50%+ of these factories for there to be any point in moving any of them 2. Armamanets factories 3. Heavy Industry [image]local://upfiles/11504/541C209C3DFA4D769E3F78C92F3DAFF1.jpg[/image]

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