Guidance requested RE: !. Plane Upgrades, & 2. Pilot Fatigue & Rotation (Full Version)

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SPRUANCE74 -> Guidance requested RE: !. Plane Upgrades, & 2. Pilot Fatigue & Rotation (10/9/2011 6:22:36 AM)

Questions:
1. The info screen for one SBD-3 Dauntless squadron, for example, allows me to select Upgrade but to the same plane – SBD-3 [0]. What is the point? This isn’t an upgrade. I assume I should select Upgrade only when it is to newer, better model. I would appreciate guidance on how to use Upgrades & when to select that I want an Upgrade. The same question for Upgrade of F4F-4 Wildcat to F4F-4 Wildcat [0] which isn’t an upgrade – and what does [0] mean? TBF-1 offers an Upgrade to TBF-1 [2] - what does the [2] mean?
2. I have a squadron of 20 Wildcats on Lunga with a fatigue factor of 44.
[a] I can rest 40-50%, and/or I can request 1 pilot [c] 5 pilots [d] a veteran and then [d] From: Any, Replacement [52], Reserve [73], TRACOM [85]. Ready Pilots: 22. Av. Exp: 78. Morale: 54. Kills: 9. I would appreciate guidance on this best way to handle this squadron as one example, especially how to rotate the pilots to minimize fatigue in addition to simply resting them so I can keep as many planes as possible in the air for combat.



noguaranteeofsanity -> RE: Guidance requested RE: !. Plane Upgrades, & 2. Pilot Fatigue & Rotation (10/9/2011 7:32:46 AM)

1a.  If no upgrades are available, the upgrade option will show the the current aircraft.  Is this is a shorter scenario or airgroups that are meant to be withdrawn?  Each air group can have a string of aircraft upgrades, which are shown on the aircraft upgrade screen, although obviously if the group is to be withdrawn, it will have fewer upgrades than a group that stays for the entire scenario/war.

1b. The number in brackets is the number of airframes available.  

2. Set rest to around 40 to 50 percent, if you wish to decrease fatigue, especially in airgroups that are operating constantly, day to day.  Adding pilots is probably not a very practical method of managing fatigue, as pilots are often delayed and you would not want to be swapping pilots out for every air group, each turn.  Also avoid setting the various missions, such as CAP, to 100%, as this will cause a massive increase in fatigue.



PaxMondo -> RE: Guidance requested RE: !. Plane Upgrades, & 2. Pilot Fatigue & Rotation (10/9/2011 1:06:02 PM)

High FAT can cause you to lose a lot of pilots quickly.  You need to mointo this carefully.

You definitely need to use the rest command.  How much depends greatly upon the mission the group is flying and how busy they are with CAP.  I generally try to keep FAT to below 20%, lower if I can.  With FAT at 44%, I would stand the group down for 2 days.  That should get the FAT down into the low teens.  Then put them back in CAP with say 20% rest.  See how that works.  Inch the rest % up as needed.

Excess pilots in a group does help with FAT, at least that is what I see.  But, higher exp pilots will be assigned to fly more often than lower exp and so will gain more FAT.  So you still have to blend in some rest to manage the overall FAT of the group.



sandman2575 -> RE: Guidance requested RE: !. Plane Upgrades, & 2. Pilot Fatigue & Rotation (10/9/2011 4:07:49 PM)

I have to say I don't really get the "Rest" command.  If you have fighters on "Escort" with range = 0, CAP at 40%, isn't it assumed that the 60% will rest?  In this example, what will setting Rest to 60% accomplish?



SPRUANCE74 -> RE: Guidance requested RE: !. Plane Upgrades, & 2. Pilot Fatigue & Rotation (10/9/2011 4:10:15 PM)

quote:

Is this is a shorter scenario or airgroups that are meant to be withdrawn?


I'm at 9-3-42 in the Guadalacanal Scenario. My info screen says "Replacements delayed." The only withdrawals are 4 B17 Squadrons in 68 days.



PaxMondo -> RE: Guidance requested RE: !. Plane Upgrades, & 2. Pilot Fatigue & Rotation (10/9/2011 4:55:30 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: sandman2575

I have to say I don't really get the "Rest" command.  If you have fighters on "Escort" with range = 0, CAP at 40%, isn't it assumed that the 60% will rest?  In this example, what will setting Rest to 60% accomplish?

No. It means 40% are staged to be on CAP now. If there is enough warning time, and the size of the attack warrants, and the leaders skill is high enough, and prolly 4 other variables, then the other 60% will also launch.

40% CAP, 20% rest says that a max of 80% of the planes can get into the air. Big impact upon FAT.



SPRUANCE74 -> RE: Guidance requested RE: !. Plane Upgrades, & 2. Pilot Fatigue & Rotation (10/9/2011 4:56:33 PM)

quote:

Excess pilots in a group does help with FAT, at least that is what I see.


So, in the above fighter squadron, which has a fatigue of 44%, there are 20 planes & 22 pilots ready. When I click on Pilots, it shows 22 pilots some in yellow & some in green. What do these colors mean? At the top it says "Squdron-US Navy [30] - what does the 30 mean? Anyway, can I select the pilots I want to rest? The highest has an 80% fatigue factor. Next highest is 61% & is the squadron leader. Should I replace him if I can rest him? Going back to my original questions, should I select pilots from the info screen [e.g., 1,5, veteran, any] & if so which to select & where do they come from? "No guarantee of sanity" didn't think adding pilots was a good idea because there would be a delay. I tend to favor resting 40-50% instead of all for 2 days in case the Nips attack, but I clobbered them good & they have been pretty quiet lately so I probably could rest them all. Overall, I have 175 total and 170 ready planes at Lunga & this squadron has the highest fatigue factor. I also have a squadron of TBFs on the Long Island so I'm in good shape I think. My 3 fleet carriers are all in port getting resupplied.



noguaranteeofsanity -> RE: Guidance requested RE: !. Plane Upgrades, & 2. Pilot Fatigue & Rotation (10/9/2011 5:33:57 PM)

If you are playing the Guadacanal scenario, Im not suprised you cannot upgrade all of your airgroups, as this obviously only covers a certain period of the war and will not have upgrades that became available in say 1944 or 1945.

When i said adding pilots wasn't practical, I meant in the sense they are often delayed and do not show up instantly, while I doubt you would want to go through every air group and be swapping out pilots, for each of them, every single turn, simply to keep fatigue down.  However what PaxMondo said is correct, having more pilots in a group, will mean a larger percentage of them are not flying each turn, which would reduce fatigue.

You can have 1/3 more pilots than planes, in your case the [30] in brackets for the fighter squadron means they can have 30 airframes and 40 pilots (30 + 1/3 of 30).  If you add extra pilots, the ones with the highest fatigue will rest.  Orange and green show the pilot skill increases in the last month and turn respectively.  The numbers in brackets are the number of pilots in each of the different pools you have available, read the pilot training addendumt to learn about each of these.



Erkki -> RE: Guidance requested RE: !. Plane Upgrades, & 2. Pilot Fatigue & Rotation (10/9/2011 6:12:17 PM)

If you have too many pilots (I think over 4/3 of plane strength) some of them will be moved to group reserve at the end of the turn - starting from the high fatigue ones. If you have 2 pilots for every plane all you need to do is move a couple of the least fatigued ones back to active roster. That way even the high exp pilots will be given some rest without player interaction.



sandman2575 -> RE: Guidance requested RE: !. Plane Upgrades, & 2. Pilot Fatigue & Rotation (10/9/2011 6:20:16 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo


quote:

ORIGINAL: sandman2575

I have to say I don't really get the "Rest" command.  If you have fighters on "Escort" with range = 0, CAP at 40%, isn't it assumed that the 60% will rest?  In this example, what will setting Rest to 60% accomplish?

No. It means 40% are staged to be on CAP now. If there is enough warning time, and the size of the attack warrants, and the leaders skill is high enough, and prolly 4 other variables, then the other 60% will also launch.

40% CAP, 20% rest says that a max of 80% of the planes can get into the air. Big impact upon FAT.


Makes sense -- thanks. I never think to set Rest but will now do so esp. for units in high-activity areas.



PaxMondo -> RE: Guidance requested RE: !. Plane Upgrades, & 2. Pilot Fatigue & Rotation (10/9/2011 7:24:17 PM)

Rest is your friend to keep your good pilots alive.  A lot of high exp pilots are lost simply due to FAT.  It degrades their skill considerably and you can lose them.  Particularly for IJ pilots who have no armor.



SPRUANCE74 -> RE: Guidance requested RE: !. Plane Upgrades, & 2. Pilot Fatigue & Rotation (10/9/2011 8:42:00 PM)

quote:

If you have too many pilots (I think over 4/3 of plane strength) some of them will be moved to group reserve at the end of the turn - starting from the high fatigue ones. If you have 2 pilots for every plane all you need to do is move a couple of the least fatigued ones back to active roster. That way even the high exp pilots will be given some rest without player interaction.


Based on comments above & "FAQ for Newbies" I've done the following at Lunga:
1. VF-71, 20 F4Fs, w/ 44% Fatigue, Av. Exp 78, Morale 54, 22 Ready Pilots.
a. I selected one veteran, LCDR Shumway, who showed up
b. I replaced Leader Shands because he is at 61% fatigue, w/ McClusky w/ high aggresive #s.
c. Set Rest 50%, CAP 20%, LCAP 10%, Escort 20%
d. I increased the # of pilots from 22 to 39.
2. VF-3, 9 F4Fs, w/ 18% Fatigue, Av. Exp. 83, Morale 60, has 47 Ready Pilots
a. Selected 1 vet, LCDR Hart, assigned to General Reserve, transfered to VF-3, & showed up.
b. Selected 8 pilots from Replacements [I did this before I realized 47 pilots were already available]
c. Set Rest 20%, CAP 40%, LCAP 20%, Escort 20%
3. VMF 212 -11 F4Fs, Fatigue 18%, Av. Exp 65 Morale 87.
a. Selected 1 vet, Major Fenwick, showed up
b. Added 4 pilots to give 22 Ready Pilots
c. Set Rest 20%, CAP 40%. LCAP 20%, Escort 20%

Please let me know what you think of this plan so far. I have 2 other fighter squadrons of 18 Wildcats.




noguaranteeofsanity -> RE: Guidance requested RE: !. Plane Upgrades, & 2. Pilot Fatigue & Rotation (10/9/2011 9:02:55 PM)

LRCAP increases fatigue, more than regular cap.  Unless you need the fighters to be flying out to their extended range, it is better to just use CAP instead.

Also i think you are confusing escort and cap, as they are technically the same mission.  Any leftover percentage not assigned to CAP, LRCAP or REST, will fly CAP, not a seperate escort mission.

Edit: Increasing the maximum range also increases fatigue, so if for example you wanted the fighers to be flying CAP over their home base, setting the range to 0 will help to keep fatigue managable, with the added benifit of ensuring the fighters do not end up escorting bombers or flying cap in another hex.



SPRUANCE74 -> RE: Guidance requested RE: !. Plane Upgrades, & 2. Pilot Fatigue & Rotation (10/9/2011 9:48:57 PM)

quote:

LRCAP increases fatigue, more than regular cap. Unless you need the fighters to be flying out to their extended range, it is better to just use CAP instead.

Also i think you are confusing escort and cap, as they are technically the same mission. Any leftover percentage not assigned to CAP, LRCAP or REST, will fly CAP, not a seperate escort mission.

Edit: Increasing the maximum range also increases fatigue, so if for example you wanted the fighers to be flying CAP over their home base, setting the range to 0 will help to keep fatigue managable, with the added benifit of ensuring the fighters do not end up escorting bombers or flying cap in another hex.


I wanted LRCAP to protect my CAs & DDs which I had placed at Tassafaronga to keep Marus from landing troops there. Because I am resting many of fighters, I am bringing the ships back to Lunga & will send them back next turn or later so I reduced the LRCAP, but I still wanted some to protect the many TFs coming to Lunga BEFORE they get into that hex.

I have assumed that those fighters not assigned to CAP, LRCAP, & Rest will fly Escort. You say this is incorrect & that they will fly CAP? I've been doing that & my bombers have Escorts. How can Escort & CAP be the same mission? Also, I don't want the bombers flying off without an escort so if I set the fighter range at 0, there will be no escort. Are you saying to set one squadron only for CAP & another squadron only for Escort?



noguaranteeofsanity -> RE: Guidance requested RE: !. Plane Upgrades, & 2. Pilot Fatigue & Rotation (10/9/2011 10:11:02 PM)

Its semantics i guess, the mission is called escort, but in the percentages there is no escort setting, so essentially CAP and Escort are the same thing.  Setting CAP to 100%, the fighters will still escort the bombers, assuming they have the same target and altitude set.  Its confusing, because the mission has two names, but essentially they are one and the same.



SPRUANCE74 -> RE: Guidance requested RE: !. Plane Upgrades, & 2. Pilot Fatigue & Rotation (10/9/2011 10:21:38 PM)

OK, I guess. I'm going to try this & see what happens. I don't want my bombers going out without adequate escort since I've seen what the zeros do to them otherwise & they get no hits on ships. The obvious key is to do this while protecting my own ships especially my CVs from getting hit with an adequate CAP.



Quixote -> RE: Guidance requested RE: !. Plane Upgrades, & 2. Pilot Fatigue & Rotation (10/10/2011 1:52:12 AM)

quote:

Its semantics i guess, the mission is called escort, but in the percentages there is no escort setting, so essentially CAP and Escort are the same thing. Setting CAP to 100%, the fighters will still escort the bombers, assuming they have the same target and altitude set. Its confusing, because the mission has two names, but essentially they are one and the same.


Unfortunately not so. CAP and escort are two different missions and need to be set differently depending on the result you want. In the picture below, the two groups are set to the same target, same altitude, but because the zeros are set to 100% CAP, none will escort the bombers. The percentage that would escort the bombers would be 100% minus anything else you assigned in the red box. So if you had rest 25%, CAP 25% and nothing else allocated, then the other 50% would fly escort in a perfect world (barring weather, morale checks, fatigue, and dozens of other things you'll eventually learn to worry about, too.) It can still be confusing, but hope that helps a bit.

[image]local://upfiles/29916/892000488B4C4B6DAEB63BA9EF2B679E.jpg[/image]



noguaranteeofsanity -> RE: Guidance requested RE: !. Plane Upgrades, & 2. Pilot Fatigue & Rotation (10/10/2011 2:06:48 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Quixote

quote:

Its semantics i guess, the mission is called escort, but in the percentages there is no escort setting, so essentially CAP and Escort are the same thing. Setting CAP to 100%, the fighters will still escort the bombers, assuming they have the same target and altitude set. Its confusing, because the mission has two names, but essentially they are one and the same.


Unfortunately not so. CAP and escort are two different missions and need to be set differently depending on the result you want. In the picture below, the two groups are set to the same target, same altitude, but because the zeros are set to 100% CAP, none will escort the bombers. The percentage that would escort the bombers would be 100% minus anything else you assigned in the red box. So if you had rest 25%, CAP 25% and nothing else allocated, then the other 50% would fly escort in a perfect world (barring weather, morale checks, fatigue, and dozens of other things you'll eventually learn to worry about, too.) It ca still be confusing, but hope that helps a bit.

[image]local://upfiles/29916/892000488B4C4B6DAEB63BA9EF2B679E.jpg[/image]

The percentage on CAP will fly escort. Just try it with one of the carriers, I reguarly have 50% of the fighters set to CAP and 50% set to rest and they still escort the bombers on a strike.



Quixote -> RE: Guidance requested RE: !. Plane Upgrades, & 2. Pilot Fatigue & Rotation (10/10/2011 2:14:20 AM)

That's the result from the above orders. No escort on 100% CAP... Perhaps someone decided your 50% resting pilots should be persuaded to come back to work to attack enemy carriers, but when I set 100% CAP, I get 100% CAP.

[image]local://upfiles/29916/6437410617EE407B884EC1527E473DDB.jpg[/image]



noguaranteeofsanity -> RE: Guidance requested RE: !. Plane Upgrades, & 2. Pilot Fatigue & Rotation (10/10/2011 2:24:28 AM)

Yeah, setting to 100 percent confirmed your results.  I've always gone with the 50/50 setting and gotten escorts to fly no problem, so am guessing you are right about the mission or percentages somehow being overridden.



Quixote -> RE: Guidance requested RE: !. Plane Upgrades, & 2. Pilot Fatigue & Rotation (10/10/2011 2:26:34 AM)

Apparently rest means rest, but only if you have nothing more important to do.

[image]local://upfiles/29916/A1489D48532C414A88905DF57395F295.jpg[/image]



SPRUANCE74 -> RE: Guidance requested RE: !. Plane Upgrades, & 2. Pilot Fatigue & Rotation (10/10/2011 7:51:59 AM)

This is what I understood. Thanks.

How did you take the picture?



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