AKE - Yamato (Full Version)

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SoliInvictus202 -> AKE - Yamato (10/13/2011 10:11:20 PM)

just a short question, to anyone who has any actual experience with it!

can the "largest" Japanese "AKE" rearm the main armament of a Yamato-class battleship?

we've been discussing this while we are preparing our first turn for our upcoming game - my team member says "I doubt it - if I look at the load capacity" - but I seem to remember someone typing here on the forum that the largest AKE can actually do it...

so if anyone has done it, or tried and failed - would be great to know for a fact!

thanks in advance




Mike Solli -> RE: AKE - Yamato (10/13/2011 11:39:45 PM)

According to the manual, you need a capacity of 6440 to be able to rearm the 18.1" rounds. I don't believe there is a Japanese ship that can convert to an AKE that is that big. Also, if you look at the table on page 285, there is a "tenders" column showing what type of tenders can rearm each specific gun and it's blank for the 18.1" guns. So, I'd say you need to plan for a port to replenish at or your Yamatos will end up running around without any main gun ammo.



chesmart -> RE: AKE - Yamato (10/14/2011 12:12:33 AM)

Iirc the largest Japanese ake with naval support can reload the Yamato's guns



SuluSea -> RE: AKE - Yamato (10/14/2011 12:55:21 AM)

From the manual the rearm cost for those guns are 6440 and no AKE makes the cut.  Here's a screen from the manual---

[image]http://i52.tinypic.com/29wpswi.jpg[/image]

I also uploaded a Lima AKE and a Kashino Class for visuals.

[image]http://oi53.tinypic.com/2pqt9hc.jpg[/image]



SoliInvictus202 -> RE: AKE - Yamato (10/14/2011 8:49:29 AM)

thanks a lot for the detailed answers... - my team-member came to the same conclusions... I just wanted to make sure, as I seem to remember that someone said he used the AKE to rearm the Yamato, or something like "which is why I keep this type of AKE in a replenishment TF close to the Yamato"...

but if all agree that it's impossible - good to know for sure!

so thanks again!




travicl1 -> RE: AKE - Yamato (10/14/2011 9:48:27 AM)

I remembered rearming Yamato with an AKE not too long ago in my PBEM game. I reloaded the turn and sure enough I did. Port size was 3 with no naval support and a Lima class AKE docked. Yamato did run out of ops points before it finished rearming so it takes a couple days but at least it can be done.



Shark7 -> RE: AKE - Yamato (10/14/2011 2:17:14 PM)

In the stock game, no AK/AKE has the capability, which is factual.

Realistically, the transport Kashino (which was used to transport Yamato's main turrets) was converted after Musashi's main guns were transported to act as an ammo transport (not an AKE) to carry the shells around. In a mod, I would think it reasonable to have Kashino convertible to an AKE, but that is just my opinion.



sandman455 -> RE: AKE - Yamato (10/14/2011 2:18:09 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Travix

I remembered rearming Yamato with an AKE not too long ago in my PBEM game. I reloaded the turn and sure enough I did. Port size was 3 with no naval support and a Lima class AKE docked. Yamato did run out of ops points before it finished rearming so it takes a couple days but at least it can be done.


Hmmmm. . . and the plot thickens.

Screen shots would have been to die for. Are you sure you were reloading the main armament?

Alas we need a tester. Seeing how mine will make her maiden voyage in 32 days, and I can barely get 2-3 days done in a week (yeah I'm one those) I might be able to give you some in game analysis come December.

It's funny how I'm more excited about getting the Yamato on a bombardment mission along the Chinese coast, than I was of sailing KB-1 across the North Pacific, stealthing her south thru the shipping lanes, to hit San Diego from 200 miles off the Mexician coast on 1/2/1942.

Only a battleship can do that to you. There's no household game called Carriers! No sir. Boys will have their toys and they will come with big guns, thank you very much. [:)]



SoliInvictus202 -> RE: AKE - Yamato (10/14/2011 5:14:13 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7

In the stock game, no AK/AKE has the capability, which is factual.

Realistically, the transport Kashino (which was used to transport Yamato's main turrets) was converted after Musashi's main guns were transported to act as an ammo transport (not an AKE) to carry the shells around. In a mod, I would think it reasonable to have Kashino convertible to an AKE, but that is just my opinion.


thanks a lot for the answer - how come that some people seem to be able to use it? (i.e. Travix)...




nashvillen -> RE: AKE - Yamato (10/14/2011 5:17:02 PM)

I should have some data on this in a couple of days. I just creamed Tabiteuea with the Yamato and other BBs in my PBEM game with rjopel and will see if I can rearm the Yamato with what I have positioned. I am not going to give any details right now as rjopel reads this forum regularly, but once I have tried what I am going to try, I will post here.



SoliInvictus202 -> RE: AKE - Yamato (10/14/2011 5:17:44 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: nashvillen

I should have some data on this in a couple of days. I just creamed Tabiteuea in my PBEM game with rjopel and will see if I can rearm the Yamato with what I have positioned. I am not going to give any details right now as rjopel reads this forum regularly, but once I have tried what I am going to try, I will post here.


thanks a lot! - also to all other posters!



CV 2 -> RE: AKE - Yamato (10/14/2011 5:24:44 PM)

If he had 1280+ nav support at that base, it would have been rearmed from that and not the AKE. I suspect this is the case.

Either that or there is a bug in the game that totals ALL AKEs present for size calculations.



PaxMondo -> RE: AKE - Yamato (10/14/2011 5:27:20 PM)

I'm sure I've done it (loaded Yamato class with AKE), all I can think of is that the AKE was in a port.  So the port size along with AKE must have met the min requirements to load?  And not that big of a port ... like size 3 or so.  I run the Kashino with her (adding the Irako and Mamiya when they arrive) and you can re-load.  I'll have to pay more attention next time I do it to where I'm doing it and what size the port is .... but I've done it in the DEI area ...  I'm sure Babeldoab, prolly Mindinao, ... those types of places ...

My current games either Yamato hasn't arrived (new Ironman) or is long gone (Downfall). [;)] So, it will be a while before I can get back to you on this.



JWE -> RE: AKE - Yamato (10/14/2011 7:39:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SoliInvictus202
just a short question, to anyone who has any actual experience with it!

can the "largest" Japanese "AKE" rearm the main armament of a Yamato-class battleship?

we've been discussing this while we are preparing our first turn for our upcoming game - my team member says "I doubt it - if I look at the load capacity" - but I seem to remember someone typing here on the forum that the largest AKE can actually do it...

so if anyone has done it, or tried and failed - would be great to know for a fact!

thanks in advance

No it cannot. To rearm the Yamato main guns requires 6438 rearm points. There is no ship in the data base, not even a US Mt Hood that has that high a 'rearm capacity'. This was done purposely, so if you can't rearm Yamato's main armament from AKE/AE it is WAD.

Idea is to force Japanese players to identify a few places to function as main fleet bases and populate them with sufficient NavSup so they can function as such (check manual at 20.1.2.2) as Japan actually did. Japan did not have a fleet train as such, and there was no planning to ever develop one, so one must kinda do it like the Japanese did it.



chesmart -> RE: AKE - Yamato (10/14/2011 7:51:30 PM)

So John a AKE and naval support can rearm Yamato ?



JWE -> RE: AKE - Yamato (10/14/2011 8:34:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: che200
So John a AKE and naval support can rearm Yamato ?

Not quite. The paradigm is Yamato can rearm the main battery at specific Port/NavSup combinations as defined at 20.1.2.2. The paradigm is that an AE/AKE can rearm weapons with rearm cost up to their cargo capacity. So secondary armament (other than the 46cm guns) follows the paradigm.

Undertand the context of the question. Repair is a matrix of AR/NavSup/Port size. But Rearm is not. Much like Repair is limited to a few points of Major Flot, Rearm is limited by 'capability'. If an AE/AKE can't contribute anything, in broad, because its capacity is insufficient, why should it be allowed to do so just because it's in port B rather than port A. So no, it's either NavSup or a Tender, and since Japan doesn't have any requisite Tenders, it's NavSup in the "right" Port.

It's a great big bloody abstraction, and rearm is different from repair. Must ping on the differences and understand the whys therefore. Good question che200. Hope the answer helps put things in perspective for you. As always, ask and ye shall be answered.

Ciao, John



chesmart -> RE: AKE - Yamato (10/14/2011 8:37:44 PM)

Thanks John as always very informative



fcharton -> RE: AKE - Yamato (10/14/2011 8:44:16 PM)

Hi John,

quote:

ORIGINAL: JWE
Idea is to force Japanese players to identify a few places to function as main fleet bases and populate them with sufficient NavSup so they can function as such (check manual at 20.1.2.2) as Japan actually did. Japan did not have a fleet train as such, and there was no planning to ever develop one, so one must kinda do it like the Japanese did it.


Merci beaucoup! This makes perfect sense (I'm SoliInvictus' teammate).

Looking at the rearmament table, it seems that for Yamato-class, you either need a level 7+ port with a few naval support teams, or a smaller port with lots of them (more than 1100). One thing that puzzles me is that, below 7, port size doesn"t really matter (you need 1150 NavSupp in a 6-port, and 1280 in a 1-port).

In other words, once you jump over the fence, and decide to concentrate fleet support in a few forward bases, port sizes seem to become irrelevant (with respect to rearmament, of course). Right? Or am I missing something (like docking restrictions, cargo limits, that would come on top of that)?

Thanks in advance,
Francois





JWE -> RE: AKE - Yamato (10/14/2011 9:19:06 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: fcharton
Hi John,
Merci beaucoup! This makes perfect sense (I'm SoliInvictus' teammate).

Looking at the rearmament table, it seems that for Yamato-class, you either need a level 7+ port with a few naval support teams, or a smaller port with lots of them (more than 1100). One thing that puzzles me is that, below 7, port size doesn"t really matter (you need 1150 NavSupp in a 6-port, and 1280 in a 1-port).

In other words, once you jump over the fence, and decide to concentrate fleet support in a few forward bases, port sizes seem to become irrelevant (with respect to rearmament, of course). Right? Or am I missing something (like docking restrictions, cargo limits, that would come on top of that)?

Thanks in advance,
Francois

Bienvenue, mon ami. ... um ... oui, je pense que vous le comprenez. C'est paradigme .. Um, smaller ports are not considered to have sufficient infrastructure to help NavSup squads perform their duties efficiently. As port size, and infrastructure, increases, the "marginal" amount of NavSup per port size, decreases. Est-ce que ceci semble raisonnable ?

Ciao. John



PaxMondo -> RE: AKE - Yamato (10/14/2011 9:52:21 PM)


Huh, so I must have been mistaken and it must have been Truk et al. And here I always thought the AKE was helping. Great news! I can leave them behind. Learn something new everyday.



Dan Nichols -> RE: AKE - Yamato (10/14/2011 10:32:30 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo


Huh, so I must have been mistaken and it must have been Truk et al. And here I always thought the AKE was helping. Great news! I can leave them behind. Learn something new everyday.


Why leave the AKEs behind? A Lima AKE can rearm all other ships but the Yamatos.



PaxMondo -> RE: AKE - Yamato (10/14/2011 11:09:10 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dan Nichols


quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo


Huh, so I must have been mistaken and it must have been Truk et al. And here I always thought the AKE was helping. Great news! I can leave them behind. Learn something new everyday.


Why leave the AKEs behind? A Lima AKE can rearm all other ships but the Yamatos.

I had AKE's in the replishment TF trailing the Yamato types to (mistakenly) help re-arm. Don't need to now. Not referring to the other BB's.



nashvillen -> RE: AKE - Yamato (10/15/2011 3:44:02 AM)

Well, my bombardment TF didn't fire the BB main guns. So much for testing.



inqistor -> RE: AKE - Yamato (10/15/2011 6:53:22 AM)

PzB few months ago was able to reload Yamato main guns at Christmas Island (at Line Islands). It can be build up to IIRC lvl 4, so he needed really lots of Naval Support, and I am not sure he had actually that many, so maybe something will stack? Like Naval HQ Command Radius?



Insano -> RE: AKE - Yamato (10/15/2011 8:15:04 AM)

Nav support will contribute throughout the command radius so you don't need to have all the Nav support at the base, just nearby. I don't think it contributes 100% though, can't remember for sure. I think it fell off linearly like when you were half of the command radius away then you only got half of the nav support.



Mike Solli -> RE: AKE - Yamato (10/15/2011 11:32:52 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: inqistor

PzB few months ago was able to reload Yamato main guns at Christmas Island (at Line Islands). It can be build up to IIRC lvl 4, so he needed really lots of Naval Support, and I am not sure he had actually that many, so maybe something will stack? Like Naval HQ Command Radius?


Page 285 in the manual will tell you exactly how many naval support is needed. In the case of a level 4 port, it's 1266 naval support in order to replenish the 18.1" guns.



rjopel -> RE: AKE - Yamato (10/15/2011 1:51:36 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: nashvillen

I should have some data on this in a couple of days. I just creamed Tabiteuea with the Yamato and other BBs in my PBEM game with rjopel and will see if I can rearm the Yamato with what I have positioned. I am not going to give any details right now as rjopel reads this forum regularly, but once I have tried what I am going to try, I will post here.



So where do I need to send my subs to check on this reloading activity?

[:D]



Shark7 -> RE: AKE - Yamato (10/15/2011 4:12:16 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: rjopel


quote:

ORIGINAL: nashvillen

I should have some data on this in a couple of days. I just creamed Tabiteuea with the Yamato and other BBs in my PBEM game with rjopel and will see if I can rearm the Yamato with what I have positioned. I am not going to give any details right now as rjopel reads this forum regularly, but once I have tried what I am going to try, I will post here.



So where do I need to send my subs to check on this reloading activity?

[:D]


If I were wagering a guess...Los Angeles. [;)]



SoliInvictus202 -> RE: AKE - Yamato (10/15/2011 7:38:16 PM)

thanks again everyone for the effort of posting!....

now a newer version of the Yamato might also have some difficulties rearming from a Lima-class AKE...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Row0rYFQCHs



travicl1 -> RE: AKE - Yamato (10/15/2011 9:16:19 PM)

Ok, I know the manual says an AKE can't rearm Yamato's main guns. However, I know I did it in my PBEM and reproduced it again now. I originally rearmed her in stock 1106i and did it again before my last post in the beta. Either the manual is wrong, there's a bug or I am really missing something. Here's some screen shots:


Munda, base where the rearming took place. If there were naval support it would be listed below the fortification line. There is none.

[image]http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/7385/munda.jpg[/image]


Yamato before being rearmed:

[image]http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/8497/yamatoa.jpg[/image]



And Yamato after clicking replenish TF at sea with the AKE docked, not disbanded in port. You'll see most of the main gun armament is full now. All of Yamato's ops points were burned before the rearmament was completed.

[image]http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/3761/yamatob.jpg[/image]

The Lima class AKE before rearmament:

[image]http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/9467/akea.jpg[/image]


And the Lima class AKE after rearmament. Supplies were removed from the ship. None were taken from Munda.

[image]http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/601/akeb.jpg[/image]



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