Constructors can build spaceports!!!??? (Full Version)

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Jeeves -> Constructors can build spaceports!!!??? (11/5/2011 3:10:39 PM)

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2942731

MadMcAI says he builds fake escort manually controlled constructors at spaceports, then uses them to build spaceports at small colonies. WOWEE that would solve so many problems for me. Mr M, if you read this please elaborate on your experience doing this. Has it always worked, and my insufficiently devious mind just overlooked this exploit? Has anyone else tried it? It would be fantastic if it works!

Lonnie Courtney Clay



cookie monster -> RE: Constructors can build spaceports!!!??? (11/5/2011 3:14:49 PM)

Construction Ships are only built at colonies

Space Ports are only built at colonies.

A construction Ship can build neither.



MadMcAl -> RE: Constructors can build spaceports!!!??? (11/5/2011 3:31:10 PM)

If you would have read my last post... well I did built the space ports by constructor in an earlier version, where it was obviously considered a bug.
Most probably a combination of my hardware, OS, drivers and other programs installed and running creating it.

It doesn't work anymore.

But the faux constructors actually work.
Design your constructor, declare it an escort, and build it at any space port.

If you are satisfied with controlling them manually they work just fine.

But, considering the reaction that also "is a bug", so I would not devise my whole strategy around it.

Of course I don't understand why you can't build supply ships and constructors on planets and bases (of course only if you can build ships big enough).

Or why the constructor can't at least build the space port.

But what one could test is, if a SSP declared as... well mining station or other star base, that could be definitely build by a constructor, work the same for the colony (meaning enabling the trade).



Bingeling -> RE: Constructors can build spaceports!!!??? (11/5/2011 3:31:51 PM)

But can an escort with construction components do the work of a construction ship? And build space ports?



Data -> RE: Constructors can build spaceports!!!??? (11/5/2011 3:38:57 PM)

If it could do that it would mean it could also pick up resources.....which means we could have used them as state freighters, the holy grail of DW [:)]



MadMcAl -> RE: Constructors can build spaceports!!!??? (11/5/2011 4:05:32 PM)

Now, I just tested it in the quick and dirty way (editor, I designed the escort-construct, set a nearby planet colony, and placed an escort-construct beside it).

I was not able to build a space port with it.

But the second option (copy the SSP, declare the copy space station instead of space port) works.

It definitely works. At least in the edited version. If it works in the long run, we will see.

But as I placed my SSPf (for faux) onto the colony it partook in trade.

It shares the cargo space with the planet below it.

If you can survive with it not being retrofitted in the future, you are game.

It should tide you over until your colony could build its own space port in a reasonable amount of time (and you don't have to scrap it until the real port is done).

About the escort-freighter, well, sorry, but no fun.

It can't be ordered to pick up or to deliver the cargo.

You also can't use a escort-miner or an escort-gasser (until you are satisfied to make them literally throw away) as the only way to get the cargo out of the ship is to retire it.

But the escort-supply ship strangely works after a fashion.
It sucks any gases in, not only the fuel. So in combination with the not getting it out it will be simply full at one point.

A way to solve this problem is to design 2 variants of them, one with cargo space and one without.
To get empty cargo space again, you have to refit it to the one without cargo and back to the one with.

Again, the normal supply ship is better. The only advantage is that you can build the escort-version on every station that can handle the size.
Technically even on a constructor.

I am now testing it a bit more serene, and will post what will happen.



Nedrear -> RE: Constructors can build spaceports!!!??? (11/5/2011 4:16:27 PM)

Sure a ressource block for military mining and extractor ships would be nice in Legends. "Don't eat that child!"

Though the Starbase Spaceport idea is not new to me. In my AAR the sunbase Oktharo is exactly that.



Data -> RE: Constructors can build spaceports!!!??? (11/5/2011 7:43:57 PM)

Man, I really like your work...I've been there for other game features as well and even if we can't bend the game to do what we'd like it sure is fun to test the crap out of it [:)]
Keep it up [sm=00000436.gif]



Data -> RE: Constructors can build spaceports!!!??? (11/5/2011 7:48:46 PM)

quote:

You also can't use a escort-miner or an escort-gasser (until you are satisfied to make them literally throw away) as the only way to get the cargo out of the ship is to retire it.


That is actually really useful for those cases where the lack of required resources at spefic places can halt ship production; if you have a fleet of these cheap babies with every resource at the ready you can send them there to deliver what the freighters don't.



MadMcAl -> RE: Constructors can build spaceports!!!??? (11/5/2011 8:29:51 PM)

Well, I have bad news.

1. A SSPf build by a FFR has the tendency to stay where you build it. Considering that the planet is moving that is rather bad.
That also concerns resource extractor bases and resorts.
No stations you want to hang onto a specific place.

2. If you build a SSPf with an regular constructor the planet partakes in trade, the SSPf has access to the planet cargo storage.
But the civilians mostly ignore it. I have tried it with resorts, standard star bases and mining bases. No play.

If somebody wants to try it with a research or monitor station, good luck. I don't think it will work, but hope dies last.

3. Only if you manually place a SSPf on a planet in the editor the civilians use it.

That essentially means that you still only have one docking bay. But the yards have are supplied by the planet.

Still, as soon as I placed a SSPf there, trade begun.
Just... slower than with an SSP.

It is still an advantage, as it can give you additional yards exclusive for imperial use.

What I haven't tried with the imperial miner is making it a somewhat mobile base (with docking bays and commerce center).
Maybe if you park it directly beside a port the civilians will be friendly enough to unload it for you.

If that works it could also help with the faux-supply ship.

The funny thing, before this reaction here I had actually no idea that this was not a common reaction.
The version I originally played had constructor build ports from the beginning (why ever).

And the FFR was a spur of the moment idea when my most advanced explorer ran into a pirate attack and got its hyper drive shot out before it could flee.
It managed to kill the pirates but they also took out the repair bots.
My constructors at this time where slow, relative old, cumbersome and, most importantly busy all over my empire.
I didn't want to wait for a new one to be build at a colony, as the ones with a reasonable building speed where also busy.
So I simply tried it.
My first one was actually a cruiser hull.
And it worked.
It was rather fast build on one of my space ports, it was relatively fast and was designed, build and at work faster than an older one could have reached the scout.

After that, the next usage was the ship grave yard (as told in the other thread, 4 or 5 debris fields interlocked. I had all 4 of the old ship families there).
I needed repair ships in a hurry.

The rest is history.



Data -> RE: Constructors can build spaceports!!!??? (11/6/2011 8:04:34 AM)

quote:

What I haven't tried with the imperial miner is making it a somewhat mobile base (with docking bays and commerce center).
Maybe if you park it directly beside a port the civilians will be friendly enough to unload it for you.


It wouldn't work that way either, I've tested it long time ago on vanilla DW. Not sure if it still applies now on ROTS but I suspect it didn't change on this, some ship class limitations seem to be hardcoced.



Data -> RE: Constructors can build spaceports!!!??? (11/6/2011 11:27:54 AM)

quote:

You also can't use a escort-miner or an escort-gasser (until you are satisfied to make them literally throw away) as the only way to get the cargo out of the ship is to retire it.


Just for the fun of it I wanted to play with this and low and behold...the escort delivered the goods and went back to mining without me needing to scrap it.

What I did that is relevant to this: edited a colony in a system, edited an MSP above the colony, edited an escort-gasser (copy as new from a gas mining ship and changed the type to escort) than sent it to collect the caslon at the gas giant.

What I did that is not relevant to this but might have an impact beyond my understanding: edited out all the resources on the planet, edited out all the other gases except caslon from the gas giant, kept deleting all incoming freighters so as not to complicate the end results.

If I were to speculate, the fact that my escort-gasser kept it's trading center may have triggered this...or, more probably, the fact that I've created it as a "copy as new" from an actual gas mining ship.



Data -> RE: Constructors can build spaceports!!!??? (11/6/2011 12:08:59 PM)

Ok, more testing as I've suspected messed up results because:

1) I've used caslon as a testing resource

2) My ship was edited near the gas giant so it did not have fuel in it's tanks

3) It remained on auto

Based on this I suspected this might be a particular result so I've redone the test using this time lead, the ship was constructed at the MSP and fully fueled before going on it's mission and was on manual all the time. Result? It still delivered the lead BUT if I tried to send it to any other planet / SP it would not deliver it (I ordered it to refuel at those places so it did dock but not delivered the lead); as suspected, scraping it does deliver it.

So it seems that irrelevant of the ship being on auto or manual it will deliver the resources to the nearest SP (did not check with the planet alone) but to no other place.



Nedrear -> RE: Constructors can build spaceports!!!??? (11/6/2011 12:31:24 PM)

I prefer the unload construction. Make a miner or grasser as an escort with and without the cargo bay and retrofit the full one back and forth to unload.



MadMcAl -> RE: Constructors can build spaceports!!!??? (11/6/2011 2:47:58 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nedrear

I prefer the unload construction. Make a miner or grasser as an escort with and without the cargo bay and retrofit the full one back and forth to unload.


I tried that, but it looked as if it didn't work. The cargo was gone, nowhere in the port to find, and when refitted with the cargo..., well, at least it was empty.

But maybe I shouldn't have tested it with Hydrogen... hard to keep the numbers observed [:D].

I'll try it again with something less common.



Data -> RE: Constructors can build spaceports!!!??? (11/6/2011 3:30:11 PM)

I hope the editor will get some more options in Legends as well. It's a powerful tool as it is but being able to control the stored resources on a colony would be good.



MadMcAl -> RE: Constructors can build spaceports!!!??? (11/7/2011 1:12:40 AM)

Well, now I am sure.

Only throw away works...

Too bad.

I guess the empire controlled freighter will be up far up in the wish list...



Data -> RE: Constructors can build spaceports!!!??? (11/7/2011 8:08:48 AM)

It has been since the begining....or state sponsorship for pirvate freighters to do state runs, etc. There are many options that have been requested.



MadMcAl -> RE: Constructors can build spaceports!!!??? (11/8/2011 8:29:40 PM)

Well, at least it is coming, the player controlled freighter...



Data -> RE: Constructors can build spaceports!!!??? (11/9/2011 8:18:10 AM)

And that is big indeed....one of the initial holy grails of DW [:)]



Bingeling -> RE: Constructors can build spaceports!!!??? (11/9/2011 9:42:38 AM)

Is it coming? A shame [:(]



Data -> RE: Constructors can build spaceports!!!??? (11/9/2011 10:42:04 AM)

It's entirely up to us to use it or not, Binge, so the game will not be affected by this unless you want it to.



grb1982 -> RE: Constructors can build spaceports!!!??? (11/12/2011 8:59:14 AM)

I think I know Why the Starport Type Star Bases Dont Stay In Orbit. I noticed that when I built Bases including minning bases with the escort constructers they all stayed in place and didnt orbit so I tried Building a Spaceport type Starbase Over A colony using a regular constructer class constructer and its stayed in orbit after contsruction. Ive montered it for a period of 3 game years and its still orbiting the colony



Data -> RE: Constructors can build spaceports!!!??? (11/12/2011 9:04:58 AM)

That's some great debut, grb. Welcome to the forum [sm=00000436.gif]



grb1982 -> RE: Constructors can build spaceports!!!??? (11/12/2011 9:12:53 AM)

Im also expermenting with a Resupply\Captial ship hybrid a ship that has same firepower defence and speed of a captail ship but can be built on a planet if you dont have the capacity to build ships that large at your spaceport, Ive got the design done but am still waiting on it to be built



Data -> RE: Constructors can build spaceports!!!??? (11/12/2011 9:26:17 AM)

How many gazilion components does it have? [:)]



grb1982 -> RE: Constructors can build spaceports!!!??? (11/12/2011 9:33:37 AM)

Size 690 or so I think. Realy expensive to build and maintain so not recomended unless your economy is doing very good. I tend to max the size of ships built on planets my colony ships usaly pack 5 shields 20 armor and more firepower than a destroyer thier also set to never retreat



Bingeling -> RE: Constructors can build spaceports!!!??? (11/12/2011 1:36:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Data

It's entirely up to us to use it or not, Binge, so the game will not be affected by this unless you want it to.

This is not true for player controlled freighters.

If it is introduced (I have never seen a source for that) it is a signal that the civilian sector is not working, and they won't fix it. I like the civilian sector, the lack of control, and hope that they will improve it rather than circumvent it.

If you were thinking of the mining ship you dismantle, this is an exploit which is not harmful.



Bingeling -> RE: Constructors can build spaceports!!!??? (11/12/2011 1:44:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Data

It's entirely up to us to use it or not, Binge, so the game will not be affected by this unless you want it to.

This is not true for player controlled freighters.

If it is introduced (I have never seen a source for that) it is a signal that the civilian sector is not working, and they won't fix it. I like the civilian sector, the lack of control, and hope that they will improve it rather than circumvent it.

If you were thinking of the mining ship you dismantle, this is an exploit which is not harmful.



Data -> RE: Constructors can build spaceports!!!??? (11/12/2011 2:27:03 PM)

Yap, I was talking about the latter. I wouldn't want to see the former in the game either....a pure private sector is one of the DW's strongpoints.



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