Effects of "Hard" level on early Soviet strategy (Full Version)

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micha1100 -> Effects of "Hard" level on early Soviet strategy (11/9/2011 9:18:47 AM)

I currently play my first 1941 campaign as the Soviets against the German AI, game version 1.04.36. To make it a challenge I chose the Hard difficulty level. What I'm experiencing is that I have no way at all to stop the Axis' units. Of course summer 1941 is a tough time for the Soviets even in the best of circumstances, but from multiple AARs I have gotten the impression that it is possible to make stands now and then and even occasionally conduct successful counterattacks. In my game, currently in late August 1941, German attacks succeed in about 99% of the battles, mostly ending in routs (and I'm not exaggerating, I checked the numbers), the most extreme example coming just last turn when Army Group North took the fully supplied heavy urban hex of Leningrad (Fort 4) with a frontal attack by two stacks against three of my better divisions. The Germans used just one pioneer btn (engineer value 1) and half of the attacking divisions had previously in the same turn already participated in a heavy battle to take Kolpino, still their original CV was about 1,000 and the adjusted CV 4,133. There's little one can do against this, even though my brave defenders mustered an incredible (compared to the other Soviet CVs I have seen) adjusted CV of 1,060.
Also, except for defeating one weak Romanian tank unit all my counterattacks have failed miserably even against cut-off enemy units, with the low point coming when repeated attacks by my strongest Soviet tank divisions were bloodily repulsed by a German motorised division that had been surrounded for two turns and showed just a defensive CV of 2 on the counter.

So now my question is - is this kind of experience to be expected in the summer of '41 with the advantages the Germans get by the difficulty level or am I just a bad player? If the latter, what mistakes are most likely to lead to such lopsided combat?
I'd like to add that the game is still far from hopeless, as while the German AI is grinding my units badly I have so far managed to keep my units from being encircled and so the Red Army still has about 4.5 million soldiers at the end of August, meaning it's not that m yunits are so crushed that they cannot offer resistance. But I ask myself if I should not have run even quicker as trying to make stands seems wrong when even rested units in good defensive positions get routed easily by enemy units operating 50+ MP off their railheads.

So, can you give me any advice? Thank you!



horza66 -> RE: Effects of "Hard" level on early Soviet strategy (11/9/2011 3:33:11 PM)

You'er experiencing nothing unusual - I played on Impossible and found anything left in front of the German advance simply shattered. Here's the AAR:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2763785&mpage=1&key=

It was very edge of the seat stuff on Impossible - if I'd lost Gorkiy/Rostov the AI would have gotten the VPs for an automatic victory, and he was two hexes away from each at the worst point. As it is I was able to barely survive with a Sir Robinsky defence, then attrit him to death over the course of 41-42, letting me go on the offensive in December 42. I'm afraid I lost interest before completing the game and AAR, but had flipped Romania in early '44 and was on course for Berlin before '45.

Bide your time and wait for the mud (the AI tends to leave motorised units vulnerable to isolation), then hit every weak unit you can see in the blizzard, or he'll finish you off in the summer. Be sure and keep significant reserves in '42 to block his breakthroughs.



Richard III -> RE: Effects of "Hard" level on early Soviet strategy (11/9/2011 3:53:02 PM)

I think playing your first game VS the German AI on _ Normal_ will give you a better feel for how the AI works
( it`s actually very good ) and what the Red Army is capable of in a `41 GC. Think " delaying " rather then "stopping" as the `41 Army is useless.

Like most of Garry`s great games it`s all about logistics...really [;)]

As Pelton wisely stated, WitE is really a massive chess game where one needs to think 20-40 turns ahead.

Good Luck Comrade Micha !



quote:

ORIGINAL: micha1100

I currently play my first 1941 campaign as the Soviets against the German AI, game version 1.04.36. To make it a challenge I chose the Hard difficulty level. What I'm experiencing is that I have no way at all to stop the Axis' units. Of course summer 1941 is a tough time for the Soviets even in the best of circumstances, but from multiple AARs I have gotten the impression that it is possible to make stands now and then and even occasionally conduct successful counterattacks. In my game, currently in late August 1941, German attacks succeed in about 99% of the battles, mostly ending in routs (and I'm not exaggerating, I checked the numbers), the most extreme example coming just last turn when Army Group North took the fully supplied heavy urban hex of Leningrad (Fort 4) with a frontal attack by two stacks against three of my better divisions. The Germans used just one pioneer btn (engineer value 1) and half of the attacking divisions had previously in the same turn already participated in a heavy battle to take Kolpino, still their original CV was about 1,000 and the adjusted CV 4,133. There's little one can do against this, even though my brave defenders mustered an incredible (compared to the other Soviet CVs I have seen) adjusted CV of 1,060.
Also, except for defeating one weak Romanian tank unit all my counterattacks have failed miserably even against cut-off enemy units, with the low point coming when repeated attacks by my strongest Soviet tank divisions were bloodily repulsed by a German motorised division that had been surrounded for two turns and showed just a defensive CV of 2 on the counter.

So now my question is - is this kind of experience to be expected in the summer of '41 with the advantages the Germans get by the difficulty level or am I just a bad player? If the latter, what mistakes are most likely to lead to such lopsided combat?
I'd like to add that the game is still far from hopeless, as while the German AI is grinding my units badly I have so far managed to keep my units from being encircled and so the Red Army still has about 4.5 million soldiers at the end of August, meaning it's not that m yunits are so crushed that they cannot offer resistance. But I ask myself if I should not have run even quicker as trying to make stands seems wrong when even rested units in good defensive positions get routed easily by enemy units operating 50+ MP off their railheads.

So, can you give me any advice? Thank you!




Mike13z50 -> RE: Effects of "Hard" level on early Soviet strategy (11/9/2011 4:19:11 PM)

I'm relatively new to WITE, only played the 41GC once as each side and the 44GC as Soviets. I increased difficulty with each campaign. First played soviets on easy in 41, then germans on normal in 41, then soviets on challenging in 44.

I'm about to start a new soviet 41, and am adopting some advice I read in another thread. Use the custom settings. Go ahead and use the 120% or 150% for the AI player, but change your settings back to 100%.

The problem with the default difficulty settings is they not only increase the effectiveness of the computers units, but also effectively neuters yours. Especially as the Soviets in 41, when you don't have any morale to speak of. Then since the patch further gimps your morale in 42, reducing it by 70% just takes the fun out of the game.



gingerbread -> RE: Effects of "Hard" level on early Soviet strategy (11/9/2011 4:21:06 PM)

In my view, it's probably better to keep the Human at 100 and dial up the AI. This is particularly true if playing vs the Axis AI - the Soviets are difficult as it is.



Flaviusx -> RE: Effects of "Hard" level on early Soviet strategy (11/9/2011 4:22:59 PM)

If you think it's rough in 1.04, don't even think about hard on 1.05. I can beat the German AI handily on hard in 1.04, but in 1.05 it's much tougher.




micha1100 -> RE: Effects of "Hard" level on early Soviet strategy (11/10/2011 8:11:18 AM)

Thank you for your replies!

Unfortunately, my time does not allow to play "test" campaigns on easier levels, I'm happy if I manage to play two turns per week and I don't want to spend months "testing". I played 1941 as Germans on "normal", and even though it was still an earlier version that was apparently tougher for the Germans I was (in my opinion) clearly winning in June 1942 when I had to abort that game due to technical difficulties with my hard drive. My impression was that the AI, while better than in other games, was still very beatable, and with the game (as in the real history) being favourable for the Soviets anyway I think choosing a harder difficulty level was correct.
I'm also still confident I can win this game. Perhaps I can even hold Moscow, but even if not the Red Army is still intact so unless the setting also severely hampers the Soviet ability to counterattack in the blizzard I do believe in being able to free the Motherland eventually.

The main reason for my post was that I read in many AARs about Soviet players getting holds now and then or even punishing German overextensions but miserably failed to do this myself and I feared I was doing something fundamentally wrong. But apparently this is really the effect of the adjustments made by the difficulty level and there is not much that can be done about it, although I am sure I still have a lot to learn.



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