RE: Preview of Legends Modding (Full Version)

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Data -> RE: Preview of Legends Modding (11/15/2011 12:59:33 PM)

Don't you always? [:)]
Man, I can't wait to dive into this one....better get some rest now.



Haree78 -> RE: Preview of Legends Modding (11/16/2011 12:28:56 AM)

A current modded version of Legends.

I am not paid by anyone related to this game, you are seeing non game assets here not owned by Matrix Games, I am just using to demonstrate a point.

[image]local://upfiles/35126/FDF8AD6D72434AADBEAC8D9233549740.jpg[/image]



ASHBERY76 -> RE: Preview of Legends Modding (11/16/2011 12:32:09 AM)

Foreign spy is a good fit.



Haree78 -> RE: Preview of Legends Modding (11/16/2011 12:39:26 AM)

I have been allowed to talk a little bit more about modding.

In terms of adding characters to your mods you need to think about what order they are going to appear in. You can decide what the likelihood of characters appearing and you can even change leaders changing down to 0% if you really wanted Laura Roslin never to be ousted.
You can set characters to be around at the start of the game or you can set the order they are for their particular type. The types of characters are:

Faction Leader, Ambassador, Colony Governor, Fleet Admiral, Troop General, Intelligence Agent, Scientist.

You can see in the above screen shot I have taken liberties with characters roles in the show to fit the DW universe. You can set your own picture per character which should be 300x300, if you don't set a picture it will use the race picture of the race they are set to. Characters from different races can and will be part of a multi racial empire. So you could have the original series Baltar, a human, being an Admiral for the Cylons :)
You will be able to set skills and traits, more on that when the customisation guide is released.

Each race will have a default policy file, you can set all of the new stuff you have been seeing in the Empire Policy screen up with this, including things such as the ability to enslave or exterminate other races when you take worlds rather than just assimilate. Gigers Alien no longer has to share a world with tourists. You can also set whether your race is the type to engage in things such as tourism or whether they would trade with other Empires.



Haree78 -> RE: Preview of Legends Modding (11/16/2011 12:40:10 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ASHBERY76

Foreign spy is a good fit.


Funnily enough I didn't set that trait, he gained it himself, I did smile :)



tjhkkr -> RE: Preview of Legends Modding (11/16/2011 12:41:41 AM)

So Batlar is a is a double agent???
Nice!



Haree78 -> RE: Preview of Legends Modding (11/16/2011 12:45:47 AM)

Yes, it increases the chances of other Empires steal research missions against you, do you think Baltar is worth keeping? :)



Haree78 -> RE: Preview of Legends Modding (11/16/2011 12:48:06 AM)

It's also worth mentioning if you do the character's background as transparent then the background will be based on their location, planet type or space if they are in a ship.



ASHBERY76 -> RE: Preview of Legends Modding (11/16/2011 12:48:37 AM)

Assassinating Helo would be very enjoyable.


Cool info about modding policy's and nice to see different races can and will be part of a multi racial empire.



Igard -> RE: Preview of Legends Modding (11/16/2011 12:52:47 AM)

Great screenshot, Haree! And thanks for all the info. Glad to see you guys are working on the beta.



tjhkkr -> RE: Preview of Legends Modding (11/16/2011 12:54:54 AM)

[It's also worth mentioning if you do the character's background as transparent then the background will be based on their location, planet type or space if they are in a ship.]
So you can mark whether to see all their traits or not?

And yes, thank you IGARD, I have been MOST unkind. Thank you for taking time to share!



Haree78 -> RE: Preview of Legends Modding (11/16/2011 1:07:18 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tjhkkr
So you can mark whether to see all their traits or not?


Ahh sorry I was talking about the background of the image. The alpha channel of the .png file.

When you first get a character most of them will be unclear what their skills or traits are, it is only after you get to use them in their role you will know.



lancer -> RE: Preview of Legends Modding (11/16/2011 1:20:00 AM)

G'day,

quote:

You will be able to set skills and traits, more on that when the customisation guide is released.


Is it possible to randomise these or do characters have the same set of skills and traits every time the turn up in the game?

Nice screenshot!

Cheers,
Lancer



Erik Rutins -> RE: Preview of Legends Modding (11/16/2011 1:33:35 AM)

In regard to a previous post, before Legends DW used 200x200 and resized to that. For Legends, we improved the memory management, reduced the compression and increased to 300x300. The new ships and the previous art all look much better than in the earlier releases without the extra compression and at higher resolution. I think you'll be happy with how they look.

Regards,

- Erik



ehsumrell1 -> RE: Preview of Legends Modding (11/16/2011 4:56:51 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Igard

Great screenshot, Haree! And thanks for all the info. Glad to see you guys are working on the beta.


Just wait til you see what's happening in the Delta Quadrant Igard! [:)]

Real soon now!



[image]local://upfiles/35889/FB2B45787F244EAA855F0BC5387B7B91.jpg[/image]

{ Friend of yours Igard? } [:D]



Igard -> RE: Preview of Legends Modding (11/16/2011 5:49:03 AM)

I don't believe I've met that rather sinister looking gentleman, Ed.

I think the 300x300 pixel size will be a good compromise. I'd rather start putting more ships into the game without worrying about memory. If it's got to be done, might as well do it now.

Must say though, it's painful reducing the quality of the ship images, even if it doesn't show up ingame.[:(]

I'll keep the old files handy, just incase Distant Worlds 2 supports higher res images.[:)]



lordxorn -> RE: Preview of Legends Modding (11/16/2011 6:17:37 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Haree78

The reduction to 300x300 isn't new, Distant Worlds always scaled to a maximum of it.

The new loading mechanism you are talking about is to manage memory better and allow for mods that use a lot more images.

As for anything to gain by going smaller than 300x300, I'm not sure, it certainly wont stop scaling but whether the scaling algorithm works quicker with enlarging compared to reduction I'm not sure. Will it save memory? Also not sure because I imagine the game holds the scaled image in memory, not the original so I would guess a smaller original wouldn't affect memory much if any.


Here is the direct statement regarding ship sizes that was asked.


quote:



ORIGINAL: ehsumrell1
Elliot, has any thing been attempted at dealing with ship image scaling yet?
For instance, in making different size Cube ships (i.e. the Borg).
Remember before, no one could make large or different sized Borg cube ships?


quote:


ORIGINAL: ELLIOT G

Hi Ed

I assume you mean 'can you set the size of the ship image independent of the ship size'? Unfortunately there is no provision for that. The size of the ship image drawn in the game is directly scaled from the size of the ship design (i.e. total size of all components).

If I've misunderstood the above, please explain further.

BTW - for all modding: because Legends now loads ship images at full resolution the source images should not be bigger than 300x300 pixels. Using the full resolution images in the game means that scaling performance is directly related to the size of the image, i.e. big images will take longer to scale and can very negatively affect performance. I just say this because I noticed a lot of ship images in some mods were typically 500x500 pixels or even more. These images will take nearly 3 times as long to scale as 300x300 images.

Thanks
Elliot




ehsumrell1 -> RE: Preview of Legends Modding (11/16/2011 6:23:51 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Igard

I don't believe I've met that rather sinister looking gentleman, Ed.

I think the 300x300 pixel size will be a good compromise. I'd rather start putting more ships into the game without worrying about memory. If it's got to be done, might as well do it now.

Must say though, it's painful reducing the quality of the ship images, even if it doesn't show up ingame.[:(]

I'll keep the old files handy, just in case Distant Worlds 2 supports higher res images.[:)]


To be honest Igard, in my playing around with reducing some of your previous Federation ships to
300 x 300 for testing, as long as the resolution is around 96 pixels per inch or higher, they look
just fine to me. We'll meet on Risa again very soon to discuss my progress! Must get some of this
damned Briar Patch Dark Matter out of my collector ships' warp manifold first though! [:@]



[image]local://upfiles/35889/A8AC9CE80D74499F823FB655C12FDE44.jpg[/image]



tjhkkr -> RE: Preview of Legends Modding (11/16/2011 3:54:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

In regard to a previous post, before Legends DW used 200x200 and resized to that. For Legends, we improved the memory management, reduced the compression and increased to 300x300. The new ships and the previous art all look much better than in the earlier releases without the extra compression and at higher resolution. I think you'll be happy with how they look.

Regards,
- Erik

Thank you for answering the question for me... [8D][:)][:)][:)]



Data -> RE: Preview of Legends Modding (11/16/2011 4:48:57 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ehsumrell1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Igard

Great screenshot, Haree! And thanks for all the info. Glad to see you guys are working on the beta.


Just wait til you see what's happening in the Delta Quadrant Igard! [:)]

Real soon now!



[image]local://upfiles/35889/FB2B45787F244EAA855F0BC5387B7B91.jpg[/image]

{ Friend of yours Igard? } [:D]



Ooooooo yeeeeeeees, mod some romulan / vulcan / any ST characters into the game.......epiiiiiiic [:)]



tjhkkr -> RE: Preview of Legends Modding (11/16/2011 8:04:44 PM)

All of this looks like neat stuff... :)



Kalthaniell -> RE: Preview of Legends Modding (11/16/2011 10:26:48 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: lordxorn

quote:

ORIGINAL: Haree78

The reduction to 300x300 isn't new, Distant Worlds always scaled to a maximum of it.

The new loading mechanism you are talking about is to manage memory better and allow for mods that use a lot more images.

As for anything to gain by going smaller than 300x300, I'm not sure, it certainly wont stop scaling but whether the scaling algorithm works quicker with enlarging compared to reduction I'm not sure. Will it save memory? Also not sure because I imagine the game holds the scaled image in memory, not the original so I would guess a smaller original wouldn't affect memory much if any.


Here is the direct statement regarding ship sizes that was asked.


quote:



ORIGINAL: ehsumrell1
Elliot, has any thing been attempted at dealing with ship image scaling yet?
For instance, in making different size Cube ships (i.e. the Borg).
Remember before, no one could make large or different sized Borg cube ships?


quote:


ORIGINAL: ELLIOT G

Hi Ed

I assume you mean 'can you set the size of the ship image independent of the ship size'? Unfortunately there is no provision for that. The size of the ship image drawn in the game is directly scaled from the size of the ship design (i.e. total size of all components).

If I've misunderstood the above, please explain further.

BTW - for all modding: because Legends now loads ship images at full resolution the source images should not be bigger than 300x300 pixels. Using the full resolution images in the game means that scaling performance is directly related to the size of the image, i.e. big images will take longer to scale and can very negatively affect performance. I just say this because I noticed a lot of ship images in some mods were typically 500x500 pixels or even more. These images will take nearly 3 times as long to scale as 300x300 images.

Thanks
Elliot




I think I finally can fully understand the resolution thing. Thank you for clearing that up Lordxorn.

That means if I plan to convert ships I made so far, I'm in for a LOT of rescaling. And it's true what Woodman wrote earlier about remaking the engine trails and position lights. Much depends on how big is the difference between the two resolutions. Even so, I'm really happy with the graphics improvement. Blurry ship images ingame is something that was bugging me a lot in ROTS. Though knowing myslef, I'd sooner make new shipsets rather than work on all the old ones :P Not sure if that makes me lazy or productive [;)]

I also have a question for you guys: what about weapons sprites? If the same loading system is used for them, what is the recommended optimal resolution?




Shuul -> RE: Preview of Legends Modding (11/16/2011 11:14:25 PM)

Please tell me, weapons and research trees are moddable?
Its a main feature im looking to get with legends.



ASHBERY76 -> RE: Preview of Legends Modding (11/17/2011 12:13:45 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Shuul

Please tell me, weapons and research trees are moddable?
Its a main feature im looking to get with legends.


It remains hardcoded from I gather.



Nedrear -> RE: Preview of Legends Modding (11/17/2011 12:24:46 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kalthaniell

Though knowing myslef, I'd sooner make new shipsets rather than work on all the old ones :P Not sure if that makes me lazy or productive [;)]


If you have visited the AAR section you might have noticed, that I use your shipsets of BG and ME for my AAR. If there is a possible improvement, might you try to recreate them too?



YourConscience -> RE: Preview of Legends Modding (11/17/2011 9:13:03 AM)

From what I see, apart from races and some pictures it will be impossible to mod any important values? For example what if I want a 30x30 sector, not just 15x15 max. Or what if I want to modify the damage values of weapons? Or ranges? Will I at least be able to binary hack such things or will there be counter-measures against this (such as checksums all over the place)?



Nedrear -> RE: Preview of Legends Modding (11/17/2011 2:46:58 PM)

I believe Hardcore Modding will be possible... though people need to make a special game folder for your version then...



Kalthaniell -> RE: Preview of Legends Modding (11/17/2011 3:15:15 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nedrear


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kalthaniell

Though knowing myslef, I'd sooner make new shipsets rather than work on all the old ones :P Not sure if that makes me lazy or productive [;)]


If you have visited the AAR section you might have noticed, that I use your shipsets of BG and ME for my AAR. If there is a possible improvement, might you try to recreate them too?



No need, the ships are already 300x300. To be honest I didn't really think that anyone is still using any of my oldest ships. It's quite rewarding to see I was wrong after all xD

Btw, I don't mind hardcoded dmg values for weapons. I'm interested solely in pic resolution.



Data -> RE: Preview of Legends Modding (11/17/2011 3:26:30 PM)

Your ships are like forum lurkers, man, you don't always see them but they are many [:)]



Shuul -> RE: Preview of Legends Modding (11/18/2011 12:31:41 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nedrear

I believe Hardcore Modding will be possible... though people need to make a special game folder for your version then...



So its possible to add new components and techs? Will it be difficult?



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