Re-Selling Research for $$$$ (Full Version)

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geosch -> Re-Selling Research for $$$$ (11/14/2011 2:35:53 PM)

I was reading through the forums, trying to identify ways to improve my economies, when I stumbled upon the not-so-secret idea of selling research to all parties. Now, in my mind, that seems like a good strategy when you develop the research yourself. But it seems (very) artificial, if not an actual exploitation of a loophole, that one would be allowed to purchase another's research and then peddle it around the galaxy for enormous profits.
This bothers me because IMHO, most (if not all) starfaring races should be capable to peddle their own technology and (more importantly!) I don't want to feel compelled to micro-manage even further by following this route.
I would suggest that the reselling of 3rd party research not be allowed (unless stolen). Let us imagine that in the next 1000 years or so that enforcable confidentiality/exclusivity agreements will have been developed.



Nedrear -> RE: Re-Selling Research for $$$$ (11/14/2011 3:15:18 PM)

You should be able to sell it. Actually nothing stops you! The only reasonable thing you might wanna add is a negative counter in your reputation concerning these people. "Did sell our technology -20" which autmomatically will prevent them from selling you any technology again.



geosch -> RE: Re-Selling Research for $$$$ (11/14/2011 4:06:42 PM)

You're right - nothing currently stops you. Your suggestion addresses the problem, but it seems like a bit of "neither-fish-nor-fowl" compromise to me. The point is that whoever has developed the science is in the best position to market it. We have to assume that these alien races would act as a reasonable entity to start with (they all know how to trade).

As it now stands, I see the reselling of 3rd party research as a cheat [X(] available only to human players. I would prefer that the game allow you more sensible approaches to generate more money (stock exchanges, derivitives trading, etc) that increase trade/market revenues or decrease maintenance costs.




Keston -> RE: Re-Selling Research for $$$$ (11/14/2011 5:22:21 PM)

One thing that has been done in a few games is to allow the sale of research, but reflect that the recipient, unless at near parity in technological and industrial base in the relevant industries, will incur substantial costs in time and money in putting that technology into production. Japanese economic history in the last century-plus is instructive in this regard, particularly bearing in mind that Japan began the process with a culture and social structure already highly suited to forced indusrialization.

Suppose the "price" of tech remains the same as it is now, but the economy-wide implementation cost for the recipient is deducted from the purchase price (in whole or in part), so the seller gets less of a net payment from more backward powers. This still provides the balancing factor of letting the laggards tech up by purchases but makes it less lucrative to sell advanced tech to backward powers. - yes, the price is higher, but all the development support takes away from the net cash received.







Gelatinous Cube -> RE: Re-Selling Research for $$$$ (11/14/2011 6:43:49 PM)

I like the Sword of the Stars approach to research. You have to enter in a joint project with the race that wants to sell you some tech, and only after the project is complete (i.e. you have overcome the cultural/linguistic/whatever differences of your respective races) can you proceed to research that tech for yourself.

In SotS this was only practical if you had different techs available from the other faction, which was common since the tech tree was heavily randomized. Something less severe would make sense in DW.



siekster -> RE: Re-Selling Research for $$$$ (11/14/2011 9:48:45 PM)

Another possible option that could be implemented is the Civ4 option to not allow "tech brokering", the trading or selling of a technology not personally researched by the race.



Data -> RE: Re-Selling Research for $$$$ (11/15/2011 7:46:59 AM)

Or the trade good system from galciv2....it also has the tech trading and brokering options.



Gelatinous Cube -> RE: Re-Selling Research for $$$$ (11/15/2011 8:12:49 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Data

Or the trade good system from galciv2....it also has the tech trading and brokering options.


I think the trade good system from GalCiv would be especially neat in Distant Worlds, given that the Loros Fruit, Zentabia Fluid, and Korabbian Spice all function in a similar kind of fashion.



YourConscience -> RE: Re-Selling Research for $$$$ (11/15/2011 12:09:15 PM)

Please at least add an option to turn tech brokering off completely. Even the spies are acquiring technologies at an increadible rate currently. In my current game I am still in the beginning as humans, and have researched only about 10 techs so far (research on slowest setting), but my completely automated spies have already stolen 10 other techs. This feels like cheating.



ehsumrell1 -> RE: Re-Selling Research for $$$$ (11/15/2011 5:05:07 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: YourConscience

Please at least add an option to turn tech brokering off completely. Even the spies are acquiring technologies at an increadible rate currently. In my current game I am still in the beginning as humans, and have researched only about 10 techs so far (research on slowest setting), but my completely automated spies have already stolen 10 other techs. This feels like cheating.


Elliot is currently revising and changing the way both tech trading and diplomacy works in Legends. From
what I've seen so far, I'd say that there will be a happy medium reached from all standpoints concerning
tech handling in conjunction with the addition of the characters and their impact and diplomacy.
(It's hard pleasing everyone and there have been some great ideas concerning this issue, but I
know that Elliot and Erik have given consideration to reach a balance in the game about this [:)] )



Sithuk -> RE: Re-Selling Research for $$$$ (11/15/2011 5:51:15 PM)

ehsumrell: Has YourConscience's point about tech stealing using agents been addressed? I too play on high research costs and feel it is unbalanced to have the AIs stealing techs off me and vice versa. (I play with 495 research costs.)



Haree78 -> RE: Re-Selling Research for $$$$ (11/15/2011 6:57:48 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sithuk

ehsumrell: Has YourConscience's point about tech stealing using agents been addressed? I too play on high research costs and feel it is unbalanced to have the AIs stealing techs off me and vice versa. (I play with 495 research costs.)


When you say it is unbalanced are you aware that only small amounts are stolen at a time? Not entire research items, rather a fraction of the item.



cookie monster -> RE: Re-Selling Research for $$$$ (11/15/2011 7:16:29 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Haree78


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sithuk

ehsumrell: Has YourConscience's point about tech stealing using agents been addressed? I too play on high research costs and feel it is unbalanced to have the AIs stealing techs off me and vice versa. (I play with 495 research costs.)


When you say it is unbalanced are you aware that only small amounts are stolen at a time? Not entire research items, rather a fraction of the item.


It is possible to steal a whole cheap tech by intelligence agent.

When they cost more on the higher tech levels you can only steal progress on a tech.

IIRC the Ancient Guardians are good to steal from as they are high tech and low power/trade partner.



geosch -> RE: Re-Selling Research for $$$$ (11/15/2011 8:00:09 PM)

ehsumrell1: I'm happy to hear that tech trading is being addressed in Legends. I hope that includes the original point of this thread - that the current system is totally unrealistic and heavily skewed in favor of the human player who wants to take advantage of it's flaws.



Haree78 -> RE: Re-Selling Research for $$$$ (11/15/2011 8:59:37 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: geosch

ehsumrell1: I'm happy to hear that tech trading is being addressed in Legends. I hope that includes the original point of this thread - that the current system is totally unrealistic and heavily skewed in favor of the human player who wants to take advantage of it's flaws.


There are LOTS of changes in this area trust me, it has been the main feedback I have been giving the entire beta test.
It is better by far in Legends, believe me you can't exploit like you used to regarding tech trading.

I can probably provide more details after release, I am afraid I am possibly already saying too much.



geosch -> RE: Re-Selling Research for $$$$ (11/15/2011 9:14:10 PM)

Well, you have me convinced - in fact I'm panting - Please release it!



ASHBERY76 -> RE: Re-Selling Research for $$$$ (11/15/2011 9:35:34 PM)

I actually prefer tech trading like in CIV5 and SOTS, ie there is none but some percentage help with techs.Straight tech trading with the A.I is never balanced because the A.I does not think.look how keen the A.I is are to share their territory map every few minutes,doh.Only close allies should share maps.



Haree78 -> RE: Re-Selling Research for $$$$ (11/15/2011 9:56:31 PM)

Check out the AAR section I will show some changes as I go.



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