WHy the battle helper (Full Version)

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Birdmon -> WHy the battle helper (11/18/2011 2:57:02 AM)

Ok, Im about done with this game. I bought the 39 expansion and well im finding it harder then expected. The tool tip says 4 - 0 I get kill 2 and lose 1. The next attack it says 5-0 I get 3 and lose 2. The next attack it says 6 -0 I get 2 and lose 2. The next attack it says 2-2 I lose 4 and kill 0. WTF Oh and I should also say they always have 1 left, after an attack. Ive been playing war games for 20 year + and I just don't get it. I guess the polish army are studs, the Calvary kills my armored like they are red headed step children. Any clues what Im doing wrong?



IainMcNeil -> RE: WHy the battle helper (11/18/2011 9:46:19 AM)

One thing to bear in mind is that the predictions only take account of what you can see. If there is artillery supporting out of your vision this will drmatically change the results. Also "Rugged Defencce" can completely change the results.

If you have a screenshot we might be able to help more.



goodwoodrw -> RE: WHy the battle helper (11/18/2011 10:29:09 AM)

Iain, Just an observation, and my summation summation may be incorrect, but it would nice to clarify the issue, does initiative, determine who fires first?
In the old PC game the unit with the better the initiative normally fired first both units starting with the strength of 10 the unit fired first and destroyed most of the enemy strength rarely got much damage in return. Combat resolution is it different with PC, lots of times I have seen a unit fire first destroy most of the enemy, but with only one or two strength left the unit firing second still does considerable damage.



vonRocko -> RE: WHy the battle helper (11/18/2011 4:49:05 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Birdmon

Ok, Im about done with this game. I bought the 39 expansion and well im finding it harder then expected. The tool tip says 4 - 0 I get kill 2 and lose 1. The next attack it says 5-0 I get 3 and lose 2. The next attack it says 6 -0 I get 2 and lose 2. The next attack it says 2-2 I lose 4 and kill 0. WTF Oh and I should also say they always have 1 left, after an attack. Ive been playing war games for 20 year + and I just don't get it. I guess the polish army are studs, the Calvary kills my armored like they are red headed step children. Any clues what Im doing wrong?

This has been my experience also. I'm not ready to quit over it, but I've learned to take the estimates with a grain of salt. They RARELY are any indication of results. I also agree with your point about polish cavalry, how did they lose with super cavalry like that? They routinely go through armor like a king tiger unit! It happens to often to be just "hidden factors". [&:]



IainMcNeil -> RE: WHy the battle helper (11/18/2011 5:09:45 PM)

It is a lot more complex than that. The bigger teh difference in initiative the more strngth points that fire fierst. The exact calculations would need to be explained by Alex.

The combat predications are very accurate for me but bear in mind they are an average. If you fought the combat 100 times this would be the average casualty rate. Any 1 combat can be significantly different. People only notice when they are unliocky and forget all the lucky hits and put them down to skill ;)



AbeSimpson -> RE: WHy the battle helper (11/18/2011 5:13:13 PM)

Saw this too. I´m not sure but at higher difficulty levels the tool tip is simply crap...



IainMcNeil -> RE: WHy the battle helper (11/18/2011 5:38:33 PM)

It is not effected by diffculty at all so this is all psycological :)



James Ward -> RE: WHy the battle helper (11/18/2011 7:02:17 PM)

Either you attack or you don't. There are no combat loss estimators in real life so just suck it up and play [:D]



vonRocko -> RE: WHy the battle helper (11/18/2011 7:18:48 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: James Ward

Either you attack or you don't.


[:D]
"If you have to shoot....shoot, don't talk." - Tuco, from The Good, The Bad and The Ugly.



hondo1375 -> RE: WHy the battle helper (11/19/2011 11:05:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: James Ward

Either you attack or you don't. There are no combat loss estimators in real life so just suck it up and play [:D]


Yeah, but games are supposed to be fun, and as anyone over 40 will know, real life ... not so much.

I think the problem with the calculator is that, apart from the unknowns (and I'm referring to the unknown unknowns, of course) is that reporting average results is probably not very useful if the potential spread of results is very broad. Not sure what the solution is .. narrowing the range of potential combat results, or reporting a potential range of losses rather than an average.



Rood -> RE: WHy the battle helper (11/20/2011 7:41:12 AM)

Take a look at Horseman78's post about initiative
quote:

For every initiative point more the first firers have then 20% of the suppressed/killed dont get to shoot back.

Example:
You have initiative 4 your opponent 3 so you shoot 1st and kill/surpress 10 strength points. As you have only 1 initiative higher only 20% dont get to shoot back so you still take 8 return shots.

Example 2:
You have initiative 10 and your opponent 5 so you shoot first and kill/surpress 10 strength points. As you have 5 higher initiative none of those points get to shoot back (5*20=100%)



Moltke71 -> RE: WHy the battle helper (11/20/2011 2:50:56 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: vonRocko


quote:

ORIGINAL: James Ward

Either you attack or you don't.


[:D]
"If you have to shoot....shoot, don't talk." - Tuco, from The Good, The Bad and The Ugly.



Amen! Fight only the battles you have to fight and make sure you bring enough power along to win. I pay little attention to the calculator. I check terrain, strength, mass attack situation, use air to get suppression and arty for that little red number.

Remember, the key to blitzkrieg was to avoid slug fests.



Birdmon -> RE: WHy the battle helper (11/20/2011 4:16:32 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bismarck


quote:

ORIGINAL: vonRocko


quote:

ORIGINAL: James Ward

Either you attack or you don't.


[:D]
"If you have to shoot....shoot, don't talk." - Tuco, from The Good, The Bad and The Ugly.



Amen! Fight only the battles you have to fight and make sure you bring enough power along to win. I pay little attention to the calculator. I check terrain, strength, mass attack situation, use air to get suppression and arty for that little red number.

Remember, the key to blitzkrieg was to avoid slug fests.
[/quote
I only get yellow and red suppression with artillery. Once I got past the first 39 conflict, its moving better.



IainMcNeil -> RE: WHy the battle helper (11/21/2011 12:14:14 PM)

The predictions are accurate based on the spread. Reducing the variation breaks the combat model so training peopel what to expect is the only option.

To be honest every game that shows the predictiosn has the same complaints. People just dont get them but you turn them off and they complain even more :)



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