RE: Legends - Invasion and Ground Combat (Full Version)

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Kayoz -> RE: Legends - Invasion and Ground Combat (11/20/2011 11:23:02 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: unclean

Nice! They heal troops now?


Back on topic...

Really? I thought they did so from the beginning? I seem to remember DW vanilla troop ships having medical facilities in them by default, and the description stating that they healed troops.

Or am I mistaken?



cookie monster -> RE: Legends - Invasion and Ground Combat (11/20/2011 11:29:31 PM)

Onboard ship medical facilities always did heal troops.



Kalthaniell -> RE: Legends - Invasion and Ground Combat (11/21/2011 12:54:59 AM)

I can't help but wonder what changes (if any) were made to the way the AI handles troops. Don't get me wrong, I think the AI is doing a good job already, defending and attacking with troops. It could however, IMHO, make a better use of cloning and other planetary facilities. It may be because I don't play that much, but I don't think I ever saw an enemy empire building three cloning facilities on it's own and one troop academy and spawning a clone army to take out the best defended colonies. I know it is not cheap, an AI may not afford it at times, but for races which have cheaper and stronger troops this would be a nice challenging tactic. I use it when I play and it works really well.
So, do any of you know if such complex new tactics have been implemented? And if such question was answered somewhere already, can you point me to it?



Malevolence -> RE: Legends - Invasion and Ground Combat (11/21/2011 1:11:15 AM)

The AI makes good use of wonders and facilities in Legends -- both for you and your opponents. It loves bunkers most of all I think.

The AI also piles on when conducting an invasion -- dropping a lot of troops (if it has them). It counterattacks to take back lost colonies.

The defending force actually replenishes troops the longer the duration of battle, so breaking the back on large colonies (like homeworlds) takes overwhelming forces.

Currently, it gets less smart in terms of its attacking when it runs out a good supply of troops due to losses.




adecoy95 -> RE: Legends - Invasion and Ground Combat (11/21/2011 1:57:54 AM)

since troops damage each other at the same time, how will outnumbering them work? one of my strategies is building tons and tons of weak robotic units and just throwing 30-60 troops at a planet, how will this work now out of curiosity?

sorry if this was answered already i kinda skimmed the thread



Malevolence -> RE: Legends - Invasion and Ground Combat (11/21/2011 2:37:37 AM)

If your total strength is enough to beat your opponent, you will lose more units completely instead of having the strength of fewer units reduced.  This can actually be helpful for building up experience in individual units -- but only those units involved in the combat will benefit from experience. If the force ratio is decidedly in your favor, less of your units will be involved in combat.





MartialDoctor -> RE: Legends - Invasion and Ground Combat (11/21/2011 8:43:03 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nedrear

An army, supplied by veterans, is in most cases a better army than you can imagine. First of a veteran will help you not to repeat his mistakes on a battlefield. He will guide you through your fear or moral endeavours and he can train you.
A veteran army which is "replenished" by ordinary troops should therefore not suffer a mayor blow in overall prowess. Though a little penalty would be logical yes.


Sure, the veterans can help along, train, boost, and otherwise help and assist green troops. However, they are still green troops; just better trained ones!

Once battle comes, they still are nowhere near the skill level of the veterans as they don't have the experience or skill. Thus, the level of the overall effectiveness of the battalion should be affected by this. I'd say much more than a "little penalty" is in order.



Erik Rutins -> RE: Legends - Invasion and Ground Combat (11/21/2011 6:01:36 PM)

As stated in the first post, there are some improvements in the area of ground combat, but this was not at all the focus of this expansion. Ground combat benefits in Legends from these changes and the addition of Generals. There are _many_ more improvements we can make in ground combat that are on the drawing board and may appear in a future expansion.

Things to consider for the future - Troop experience, multiple troop types, troop equipment and research, troop design, drop pods and drop ships, boarding pods and boarding actions, etc. Some of them almost made it into Legends, but we had to keep the feature list and resulting development time within what we could afford for this release. If Legends does well, those of you that want more work in this area may be well rewarded. [8D]

Regards,

- Erik



Yskonyn -> RE: Legends - Invasion and Ground Combat (11/21/2011 6:58:11 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Things to consider for the future - Troop experience, multiple troop types, troop equipment and research, troop design, drop pods and drop ships, boarding pods and boarding actions, etc. Some of them almost made it into Legends, but we had to keep the feature list and resulting development time within what we could afford for this release. If Legends does well, those of you that want more work in this area may be well rewarded. [8D]

Regards,

- Erik


Sounds great indeed. You will have my money, promised!
But first get Legends out of the door! :D



tjhkkr -> RE: Legends - Invasion and Ground Combat (11/21/2011 7:23:42 PM)

Things to consider for the future - Troop experience, multiple troop types, troop equipment and research, troop design, drop pods and drop ships, boarding pods and boarding actions, etc. Some of them almost made it into Legends, but we had to keep the feature list and resulting development time within what we could afford for this release. If Legends does well, those of you that want more work in this area may be well rewarded.

That would be kind of neat! It would be really fun!



nammafia -> RE: Legends - Invasion and Ground Combat (11/21/2011 8:22:00 PM)

I will certainly contribute to the well being of Legends.



Kalthaniell -> RE: Legends - Invasion and Ground Combat (11/22/2011 5:26:07 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Malevolence

The AI makes good use of wonders and facilities in Legends -- both for you and your opponents. It loves bunkers most of all I think.

The AI also piles on when conducting an invasion -- dropping a lot of troops (if it has them). It counterattacks to take back lost colonies.

The defending force actually replenishes troops the longer the duration of battle, so breaking the back on large colonies (like homeworlds) takes overwhelming forces.

Currently, it gets less smart in terms of its attacking when it runs out a good supply of troops due to losses.




Thx Malevolence. That's good news.

I do hope all the features from the drawing board will get to the game one day. By the time of the next expansion DW will probably be the Starcraft of 4X games. IMHO it's already nr 1.



J HG T -> RE: Legends - Invasion and Ground Combat (11/22/2011 6:53:53 AM)

DW is indeed in great shape with Legends. My guess is that there will be one more expansion and then the focus is shifted to DW2. Just my two rupess.
I personally haven't had major complaints about how troops work in DW. But, I'm happy to hear there are plans to enhance the ground combat system.



Facedrop -> RE: Legends - Invasion and Ground Combat (11/22/2011 9:16:18 AM)

In relation to the new ground combat mechanics, can we expect any new content to be patched in to Legends after release?
I really don't like the sound of waiting for an entire new expansion.



ehsumrell1 -> RE: Legends - Invasion and Ground Combat (11/22/2011 11:38:59 AM)

It's possible Facedrop, but I believe that the first order of business Elliot will take
is the final update/patch for ROTS. I think that would be more important for the fans/players
who don't get Legends yet for whatever reason. [:)]



ASHBERY76 -> RE: Legends - Invasion and Ground Combat (11/22/2011 10:10:25 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Facedrop

In relation to the new ground combat mechanics, can we expect any new content to be patched in to Legends after release?
I really don't like the sound of waiting for an entire new expansion.



No chance.This will be expansion features.



unclean -> RE: Legends - Invasion and Ground Combat (11/23/2011 12:09:08 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kayoz


quote:

ORIGINAL: unclean

Nice! They heal troops now?


Back on topic...

Really? I thought they did so from the beginning? I seem to remember DW vanilla troop ships having medical facilities in them by default, and the description stating that they healed troops.

Or am I mistaken?


Yeah sorry, I'm all confused here, haven't played in a while. Maybe it was multiple med facilities that didn't have a benefit?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Ground combat benefits in Legends from these changes and the addition of Generals.


Yeah, I really like the addition of Generals, it should make invasions much more tense!



Kayoz -> RE: Legends - Invasion and Ground Combat (11/23/2011 4:35:23 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: unclean

Yeah sorry, I'm all confused here, haven't played in a while. Maybe it was multiple med facilities that didn't have a benefit?



Dunno - you'd have to ask JHGT what he meant by:

quote:

...medical facilities are now very useful in warships transporting troops.


I have no idea what he meant by "now". They've ALWAYS done that.



Gelatinous Cube -> RE: Legends - Invasion and Ground Combat (11/23/2011 4:40:48 AM)

I just want to say for a moment how impressed I am with Codeforce. It's become common for developers to consider the things that their forum members say, but it is usually poorly implemented, and comes at the cost of quality. Not only does this expansion buck that trend, but it sets a whole new gold standard for what to expect out of an expansion. This is nothing less than a complete re-imagining of the game, in ways that have been requested mostly here on the forums. Not only that, but despite some initial release problems the DW series has been remarkably stable and well-patched.

I don't generally kiss butt, but I just keep getting blown away by DW and Codeforce. If more developers were like this, my gaming shelf would have a lot more games on it.



Nedrear -> RE: Legends - Invasion and Ground Combat (11/23/2011 6:01:05 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kayoz

I have no idea what he meant by "now". They've ALWAYS done that.



Fairly spekaing he meant it regarding the troops. Since now more get damaged instead of one, the healing will be used for the first time on a necessary high level between invasion worlds.



J HG T -> RE: Legends - Invasion and Ground Combat (11/23/2011 6:57:19 AM)

What Nedrear said.
Example: 20 Boskaran executioner battalions invade small world (I ignore the population for this example) of Atuuks with 15 hunting parties. Boskaras will most definetly win but results vary with both systems.

In the old system troops would fight them one vs. one and new battalion would replace the destroyed one and fight on. This results in all the surviving troops, except the one that was fighting during victory, being in full strenght

In the new system 15 of 20 boskaran troops would engage the 15 atuuk troops simultaneously. This would most likely result in boskaran victory with most of their troops in more or less damaged state. This makes the medical facilities in troop transports much more useful, especially if you are using rapid strikes on weak enemy worlds using the same troops over and over again.

In the old system I almost never put medical facilities on warships, only on spaceports. And even then mostly to give bonuses to population.
Now I will most definetly put medical facilities to all of my troop transports and maybe even to troop carrying destroyers, cruisers and capitals.



unclean -> RE: Legends - Invasion and Ground Combat (11/23/2011 7:32:46 AM)

That's good to hear, much thanks for clearing that up. All I could remember is that they were kind of useless.



the1sean -> RE: Legends - Invasion and Ground Combat (11/24/2011 2:10:11 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gelatinous Cube

I just want to say for a moment how impressed I am with Codeforce. It's become common for developers to consider the things that their forum members say, but it is usually poorly implemented, and comes at the cost of quality. Not only does this expansion buck that trend, but it sets a whole new gold standard for what to expect out of an expansion. This is nothing less than a complete re-imagining of the game, in ways that have been requested mostly here on the forums. Not only that, but despite some initial release problems the DW series has been remarkably stable and well-patched.

I don't generally kiss butt, but I just keep getting blown away by DW and Codeforce. If more developers were like this, my gaming shelf would have a lot more games on it.

Last year when I first got into DW I was impressed when I saw the developer posting on the forums with requests for feedback and ideas from players. Since then I joined the beta team and helped quality test ROTS and now Legends. I have to say that in my opinion both Matrix and Codeforce listen to the player pulse quite well.

Unfortunately during intense development cycles they often aren't as present on the public forums. This can easily lead to disillusionment for very active members of the community. However, please be patient. I know that their absence is often because they are very actively communicating with the players on the testing team. They very actively implement tweaks and major changes into beta versions of the game, and most of those improvements are based on community board discussions, the master wish list, and immediate feedback from testers.

As has been said, ground combat is just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the huge gameplay improvements in Legends. A laundry list of major expansion-worthy features from the forums are now features in Legends:
Admirals? Check. Leaders? Check. Race specific victory conditions? Check. Territorial boundaries? Check. Completely overhauled AI? Check. Amazingly more diverse weapons tech tree? Check. New ship artwork for every race? Check. Improved game performance? Check. The list goes on.

If the average player is half as impressed with Legends as I am, then DW will continue to garner good sales and therefore provide more refined and expanded gameplay for a long time to come. I hope nobody misses out; this is an awesome expansion in so many ways.



Kayoz -> RE: Legends - Invasion and Ground Combat (11/24/2011 9:26:09 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Malevolence

Troops on a colony's surface also help deter civil unrest.


I can find no evidence of this - have I missed something?



ehsumrell1 -> RE: Legends - Invasion and Ground Combat (11/24/2011 10:50:27 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: the1sean

Last year when I first got into DW I was impressed when I saw the developer posting on the forums with requests for feedback and ideas from players. Since then I joined the beta team and helped quality test ROTS and now Legends. I have to say that in my opinion both Matrix and Codeforce listen to the player pulse quite well.

Unfortunately during intense development cycles they often aren't as present on the public forums. This can easily lead to disillusionment for very active members of the community. However, please be patient. I know that their absence is often because they are very actively communicating with the players on the testing team. They very actively implement tweaks and major changes into beta versions of the game, and most of those improvements are based on community board discussions, the master wish list, and immediate feedback from testers.

As has been said, ground combat is just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the huge gameplay improvements in Legends. A laundry list of major expansion-worthy features from the forums are now features in Legends:
Admirals? Check. Leaders? Check. Race specific victory conditions? Check. Territorial boundaries? Check. Completely overhauled AI? Check. Amazingly more diverse weapons tech tree? Check. New ship artwork for every race? Check. Improved game performance? Check. The list goes on.

If the average player is half as impressed with Legends as I am, then DW will continue to garner good sales and therefore provide more refined and expanded gameplay for a long time to come. I hope nobody misses out; this is an awesome expansion in so many ways.



Well said fellow tester, well said! [sm=happy0065.gif]



Data -> RE: Legends - Invasion and Ground Combat (11/25/2011 10:08:59 AM)

This is so obvious that you kinda wonder why it's worth stating it...and yet it is worth to do it so I strongly second it.



balto -> RE: Legends - Invasion and Ground Combat (11/25/2011 4:59:36 PM)

I am just reading this. So in Ship Design, Medical should always be in a Troop Carrier. Good to know.



Kayoz -> RE: Legends - Invasion and Ground Combat (11/25/2011 7:49:02 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Malevolence

Troops on a colony's surface also help deter civil unrest.


Again, I can find no evidence to substantiate this claim. Nothing in the docs, nothing in gameplay mechanics. Nothing. Nada. Zip.



Malevolence -> RE: Legends - Invasion and Ground Combat (11/25/2011 8:59:28 PM)

sorry I had to dig this out from awhile back.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Malevolence

Do troops on the surface of colonies influence the chance of rebellions?


quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

They are supposed to, as far as I know.

Regards,

- Erik


quote:

ORIGINAL: Malevolence

Ok, thanks.  It isn't specified anywhere that I have found. I know many people assume it (I did, until I noticed folks in the general forum questioning the validity).

Recommend that feature is added to the "Colony Approval" article in the Galactopedia.





the1sean -> RE: Legends - Invasion and Ground Combat (11/26/2011 4:25:09 AM)

Agreed, more concrete info should be spelled out in the Galactopedia concerning both troop effects on colonies and ground combat mechanics.



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