Is this on purpose? (Full Version)

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randal7 -> Is this on purpose? (11/27/2011 3:00:16 PM)

I remember someone saying resources will be more important in Legends. I took this to mean because each race has bonus resources. However, I have explored about 50 systems in my current game and have no chromium. I haven't seen anyone else mention this sort of problem, so maybe I'm just unlucky. There is chromium in the galaxy per the colony planner window.

If regional scarcities have been implemented in the Legends, excellent idea. I've never had a resource problem this far in before, and it adds intensity to the game. I just hope it is implemented better than in Civ3.

So, feature or bad luck?



Bingeling -> RE: Is this on purpose? (11/27/2011 3:01:38 PM)

Bad luck, I figure. I had no resource problems, but I started in the core of a large spiral. It would be more exciting to start far out where systems are few and far between.



WoodMan -> RE: Is this on purpose? (11/27/2011 3:13:21 PM)

Bad luck probably.

I notice a lot of people over the past year or two have complained about lack of resources and grinding to a halt etc, there is one at the top of the forum at the moment saying he is running out of steel because his contructors on auto haven't built mines for it, in Das123 interactive AAR in the AAR forum he had fuel shortages crippling his Empire. 

In all my games of DW only once ever have I grind to a halt, and it was because of Chromium [:D]  That was about a year ago, no problems since, so I'm guessing you got bad luck like I had that one time.



Erik Rutins -> RE: Is this on purpose? (11/27/2011 4:14:24 PM)

Resources are a bit more scarce in Legends and each location now has a cap on how much you can extract. Combined with the key resources for each faction, the net result should be that resources are a more important part of gameplay now. Based on the reports so far, that seems to be the case, though the automated construction AI looks like it needs a few more tweaks as well.

Regards,

- Erik



Fideach -> RE: Is this on purpose? (11/27/2011 5:58:57 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Resources are a bit more scarce in Legends and each location now has a cap on how much you can extract. Combined with the key resources for each faction, the net result should be that resources are a more important part of gameplay now. Based on the reports so far, that seems to be the case, though the automated construction AI looks like it needs a few more tweaks as well.

Regards,

- Erik


so Erik, is that what triggers resources being "exhausted" on a planet? You can literally mine resources out now?



martok -> RE: Is this on purpose? (11/27/2011 6:05:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Resources are a bit more scarce in Legends and each location now has a cap on how much you can extract.

Clarification, please: Does this mean there's now a cap on resources you can extract per [second, minute, etc.]? Or is there now a limit on how many resources you can extract from a planet/moon/asteroid over the course of the entire game? (I really hope it's not the latter!)







the1sean -> RE: Is this on purpose? (11/27/2011 6:07:47 PM)

In other words: this is on purpose, but the AI needs to be optimized to deal with it...



BigWolfChris -> RE: Is this on purpose? (11/27/2011 6:19:08 PM)

Current game, I noticed none of my ships were building, found out I had zero supply of carbon fibre in my general area (which is required to build hyperdrives for starters)
Cue me taking over my recon and constructor ships looking for a source somewhere lol, fortunately I found 2 sources just outside the borders of AI empires... so yea, I'm staying close friends with them until I build up a sizeable reserve so they don't take them out lol

However, other than the occasional shortage at the beginning, I'm still finding the economy far too easy



randal7 -> RE: Is this on purpose? (11/27/2011 10:36:36 PM)

I'm not sure how you would maintain a shortage across the whole game/galaxy without crippling the AI. I would like to see this as a feature, or maybe better as a difficulty option. Make one or two strategic resources very rare/nonexistant within a 1 sector radius (or thereabouts) of the player's start location. Wouldn't bother the AI's but would slow down your initial jump into the lead.



Erik Rutins -> RE: Is this on purpose? (11/27/2011 11:14:31 PM)

The cap I mentioned is a cap on extraction rate, FYI.

Regards,

- Erik



Nedrear -> RE: Is this on purpose? (11/27/2011 11:32:24 PM)

So the ressource does not die down by itself... still is it an extract rate cap limiting the amount of extractors in a station - meaning more than X gives you **** - or an overall % that is applied to a system to hinder abundant systems to spawn.



Fideach -> RE: Is this on purpose? (11/28/2011 2:21:00 AM)



How do you figure what the cap is? I usually put two extractors on each of my mining stations, so I'm curious to know if that is a waste of resources now or not.



martok -> RE: Is this on purpose? (11/28/2011 7:15:09 AM)

@Erik & Nedrear:  Appreciate the clarification.  That sounds good.  [8D] 





Okim -> RE: Is this on purpose? (11/28/2011 8:15:37 AM)

Got myself a game without chromium and carbon fibre in 3 sector wide radius. Had to eradicate little rodents who were lucky enough to start the game with both these resources on their homeworld.

BTW, during the game one of my colonies received a new luxury resource - that was a WOW kind of a surprise. Nice work, devs :)
Does it happen only with luxury resources or is there a chance to get a strategic resource on your colony? Also does it work with any resource or only native to the planet type?



Ufarsin -> RE: Is this on purpose? (11/28/2011 2:58:34 PM)

One time I lost the important luxury goods Korrabian spice (I think it was spice) on the otherwise useless planet Korabbia... there was then no further sites of this luxury goods in the entire galaxy.

So my guess is anything can come or go



Nalim27 -> RE: Is this on purpose? (11/28/2011 3:09:01 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Fideach
How do you figure what the cap is? I usually put two extractors on each of my mining stations, so I'm curious to know if that is a waste of resources now or not.

I second that. I put more extractors (double the default amount if I remember correctly) to mining designs too - because it is more effective to have twice extractors on single station (and defended station) instead of two stations with single extractor. This strategy works fine in Return of Shakturi but it is looks that this is not useful now.

Erik, can you describe what is the cap value? It is possible to display that value in the game, or it is stored in some game file, or hardcoded in exe?



BigWolfChris -> RE: Is this on purpose? (11/28/2011 3:17:53 PM)

I'm sort of hoping the cap would be along the lines of that % we see being that it allows mine that % of your base/ships own extraction rate (so if your station has an extraction of 10, it will only mine a planet with 50% at a rate of 5)



dstone16321 -> RE: Is this on purpose? (11/28/2011 4:01:01 PM)

quote:

The cap I mentioned is a cap on extraction rate, FYI.


Is it?

I exhausted a polymer resource in my game...

It would be cool for this to be a setup option or modded out, because although it could be interesting late game and its realistic I would personally prefer the resources to be infinite.

Edit:

Just to confirm I am a new player, so it may of always been this way - it was on a colony as well, perhaps it only happens on colonies?



Shark7 -> RE: Is this on purpose? (11/28/2011 4:02:24 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

The cap I mentioned is a cap on extraction rate, FYI.

Regards,

- Erik


So in other words, putting more mining engines on a mining base will have nil effect on the rate now?



Gelatinous Cube -> RE: Is this on purpose? (11/28/2011 4:02:48 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: dstone16321

Is it?

I exhausted a polymer resource in my game...

It would be cool for this to be a setup option or modded out, because although it could be interesting late game and its realistic I would personally prefer the resources to be infinite.


I think the percentage reflects the speed at which you can extract it. As in a percentage of 1 unit-per-tick. The resource exhaustion and resource discovery are just events. So barring events, your resources are infinite. The only cap is on extraction speed.

Unless I'm completely wrong.



feelotraveller -> RE: Is this on purpose? (11/28/2011 4:04:53 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7


quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

The cap I mentioned is a cap on extraction rate, FYI.

Regards,

- Erik


So in other words, putting more mining engines on a mining base will have nil effect on the rate now?


After a yet to be determined point.



dstone16321 -> RE: Is this on purpose? (11/28/2011 4:05:05 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gelatinous Cube

I think the percentage reflects the speed at which you can extract it. As in a percentage of 1 unit-per-tick. The resource exhaustion and resource discovery are just events. So barring events, your resources are infinite. The only cap is on extraction speed.

Unless I'm completely wrong.



Ah I see. Thanks :)




the1sean -> RE: Is this on purpose? (11/28/2011 4:09:23 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

The cap I mentioned is a cap on extraction rate, FYI.

Regards,

- Erik

Erik, does this mean that the mining techs are useless to upgrade. Clarification is necessary, and this needs to be updated in the Galactopedia.



feelotraveller -> RE: Is this on purpose? (11/28/2011 4:16:59 PM)

I think Erik is being deliberately coy about this. [:)]

What I can say is that sticking two mining engines on your bases in the early game speeds up extraction. Sticking four on speeds it up even more. But from what Erik is saying there is a point where sticking even more on will not speed it up. [8D]

Having better mining tech means you need less engines to get the same extraction rate.

If someone is particularly interested they could test this for us all and report back. Me I'm too lazy and just want someone else to serve it up on a platter. [:D]



Gelatinous Cube -> RE: Is this on purpose? (11/28/2011 4:18:33 PM)

I believe the entire system works in multipliers within multipliers. You may never get 100% efficiency from that 37% Resource, but you can certainly improve the rate.



solops -> RE: Is this on purpose? (11/28/2011 4:22:06 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: randal7

I remember someone saying resources will be more important in Legends. I took this to mean because each race has bonus resources. However, I have explored about 50 systems in my current game and have no chromium. I haven't seen anyone else mention this sort of problem, so maybe I'm just unlucky. There is chromium in the galaxy per the colony planner window.



I have had the chromium problem twice. I think there is a problem with the current model although I agree that resources had too little impact in RoTS.



solops -> RE: Is this on purpose? (11/28/2011 4:29:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

"each location now has a cap on how much you can extract."

Regards,

- Erik


This is bad. Very bad. Please make it optional. It makes long, slow R&D games unplayable.

Resource scarcity would be better modelled more heavily on quantity, consumption and transport. Sources always running out (depletion), while perhaps ultimately realistic, is not balanced properly by the almost infinite richeness of possible sources across the galaxy, nor can it be in game terms while still trying to have mineral limitations as a factor in the economic equation.

As implemented now, the resource location quantity cap (mineral depletion to zero) should be optional.



solops -> RE: Is this on purpose? (11/28/2011 4:31:36 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

The cap I mentioned is a cap on extraction rate, FYI.

Regards,

- Erik


Just read this. However, I have gotten in-game messages that resources have been depleted several times. This is not an extraction rate cap!



Gelatinous Cube -> RE: Is this on purpose? (11/28/2011 4:32:14 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: solops


quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

The cap I mentioned is a cap on extraction rate, FYI.

Regards,

- Erik


Just read this. However, I have gotten in-game messages that resources have been depleted several times. This is not an extraction rate cap!


Those messages are random events. You can turn them off by turning off random events.



w1p -> RE: Is this on purpose? (11/28/2011 4:44:01 PM)

Let me get this right.

Resources are infinite unless a random event removes them (but on the flip side random event sometimes ADDS them)

Your mining rate is 10, which is 10 per tick (for example) and if the resource is 50% you mine at 50% efficiency? *edit so 50% of 10 is 5 per tick*

But there is a cap, which means once you start mining at 40 per tick (if that's 4 basic mining extractors on a 100%, or 4 high tech ones on 60% etc. etc.) then there's no point having any more?

Can this cap be explained a bit more please, confused!!

Thanks




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