Civilian Freighters: The Long Haul! (Full Version)

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LeonTheNeon -> Civilian Freighters: The Long Haul! (11/29/2011 8:27:30 PM)

I just started playing DW again with the release of Legends so I don't recall if this was an issue in the original game or not.

I find that my civilian freighters don't seem to understand that flying to the other end of the galaxy is not a very effective means of procuring or selling products.

Is there a reason they do this?

I'm playing an 8x8, 1000 [EDIT: Correction 700] Star game and literally almost every single civilian freighter has decided to go see the some empire on the literal other end of the galaxy. And this isn't to pick up some rares spices .... no this is to get materials like Caslon and Steel. Surely there must be closer sources of this. In fact, checking my own empires mining stations I see that there is steel and caslon ready for pick up.

Now the extra wrinkle is this. It *seems* like they have a preference to go to empires with whom I have a free trade agreement. Is that so? If so I appreciate their desire to increase my empires Trade Revenue from the FTA but I would rather have speedy deliver of goods.

...

Ultimately. regardless of the cause, it would be nice if civilian freighters had a keener understanding of their fuel limits and didn't so scampering off the far reaches of the galaxy leaving my economy to falter and die for lack of resources as they slowly limp across the galaxy on fumes.

...

I'm just about to start a new game and I'm going to intentionally not make Free Trade Agreements with any distant civilizations and see if it makes a difference.



ASHBERY76 -> RE: Civilian Freighters: The Long Haul! (11/29/2011 8:31:56 PM)

There are big issues with freighters that should have been picked up in the beta.In my 15.x15 sector game 65% of freighters were at 0 fuel travel.This game has an economy without player input so it has to bloody work or the whole ship sinks.



Bingeling -> RE: Civilian Freighters: The Long Haul! (11/29/2011 8:59:31 PM)

Something along the line of:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=2962130

The freighter system would need more love that permits the player to influence the flow of goods by wise placement of space ports. And that utilizes cargo capacity of freighters better, and makes then travel shorter distances.



ToastySandwich -> RE: Civilian Freighters: The Long Haul! (11/30/2011 12:46:50 AM)

quote:

When a colony wants goods for its construction project, it should ask its local spaceport for it. If the spaceport does not have it, it should ask the local trade hub. And if the trade hub does not have it should ask all its "local space ports" and if that fails, ask its neighbor hubs. In the case of a new rare resource available all colonies should scream for the stuff, and requests should propagate towards the source, each hub having the "needs" of all its local colonies, and the need of hubs further away from the rare source.


That's a sweet idea, hope to see it implemented in some way.



Erik Rutins -> RE: Civilian Freighters: The Long Haul! (11/30/2011 1:36:06 AM)

Hi Leon,

Was this with 1.7.0.2? Ashbery or Leon, could you upload a save file if this is still an issue with 1.7.0.2 please?

Regards,

- Erik



2ndACR -> RE: Civilian Freighters: The Long Haul! (11/30/2011 2:04:53 AM)

Or do like I do and upgrade the new versions with extra fuel tanks.

But yes, does need some work, I have small freighters packed full and the large freighters with barely any cargo at all.



LoBaron -> RE: Civilian Freighters: The Long Haul! (11/30/2011 8:45:50 AM)

Erik, if I upgrade to 1.7.0.2 and load my 1.7.0.1save, I assume I need to wait until the AI Freighters
complete their current mission until any changes will be notable?



Locarnus -> RE: Civilian Freighters: The Long Haul! (11/30/2011 2:28:30 PM)

Bingelings Trade Network indeed sounds like a great idea.

It would maybe cost some cpu power, but on the other hand it would probably decrease the number of freighters, because they are used more efficiently, thus saving cpu power.

1-2 freighters per mine (if there is a spaceport closeby, heavy freighters for bulk goods like fuel), a few freighters per spaceport for the link to the hub, and a few more between the hubs.
Given that right now I have eg 20 freighters of all sizes crawling without fuel between my outer colony and my empire, each transporting only a 2 digit amount of the same good (steel), this would be a major improvement...



Erik Rutins -> RE: Civilian Freighters: The Long Haul! (11/30/2011 3:11:48 PM)

Hi LoBaron,

Yes, for existing games there will be a substantial delay as the changes gradually kick in. You will see them more quickly in new games.

Regards,

- Erik



ASHBERY76 -> RE: Civilian Freighters: The Long Haul! (11/30/2011 5:25:48 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Hi Leon,

Was this with 1.7.0.2? Ashbery or Leon, could you upload a save file if this is still an issue with 1.7.0.2 please?

Regards,

- Erik



This was pre 1.7.02 patch.



LeonTheNeon -> RE: Civilian Freighters: The Long Haul! (11/30/2011 7:05:57 PM)

I posted this before I noticed the 1.7.0.2 patch so it was the Enterprise patch (1.7.0.1).

I started a new game last night but I only have a small portion of the galaxy revealed so impossible to say whether it is improved or not at this point.



LoBaron -> RE: Civilian Freighters: The Long Haul! (11/30/2011 7:32:12 PM)

Thanks Erik!

I tried but did not notice any change in freighter behaviour. 3 months past beta patch the freighters still run for the same steel source on the other end of the map as before, with fuel tanks empty.
Think I will restart with the current beta.



Shuul -> RE: Civilian Freighters: The Long Haul! (11/30/2011 11:51:33 PM)

Also, can we have a button like "Fund private economy with xxx money" and that it lets a new freighters to be built asap? Coz i have shortages of freighters, much of them are destroyed, but not many are rebuilt.



adamsolo -> RE: Civilian Freighters: The Long Haul! (12/1/2011 1:35:56 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shuul

Also, can we have a button like "Fund private economy with xxx money" and that it lets a new freighters to be built asap? Coz i have shortages of freighters, much of them are destroyed, but not many are rebuilt.


Same here. Private folk are not building enough freighters. I don't see freighters built for ages and I have a ton of free trade treaties. I have a feeling that in RotS the AI built more freighters. I used to see big convoys going back and forth, now I only see some scattered ones. What's going on? Maybe I have all the goods I need? Why am I not seeing much freighter traffic. And what happens if I scrap them? Will the AI build new ones to replenish those with latest designs? (I ask you this because it's not possible to retrofit freighters right?) I'm going to try scrapping all freighters to see what happens.

\edit
Ok, I did a couple of experiments with freighters and these were the results.

First I think I found an exploit to some extent. If you want to transfer the funds from the private sector just scrap all the freighters and then the private sector will issue a massive build of freighters to replenish the ones you just scrapped. I did this twice in a row and emptied the private coffers.

Second there seems to be a cap to the number of freighters the private sector builds. I had 30 freighters, I scrapped them all and then the private sector built 30 new ones using latest designs. Then I repeated this process (it took some time ok) but then the private sector built more freighters in the second time (like 34 or a bit more). So it seems the number of freighters is caped by something, my guess goes to population or strategic value perhaps (and not the amount of free trade agreements as I supposed it was the case).

I may be wrong but I think when I replenished the freighters pool I witnessed a more focused behavior. Previously freighters were trading in erratic behaviors, like, sending steel and gold to mining bases (?). When I scraped them all and replenish I think they focused more on trade with foreign races. This was my impression, I may be wrong.

Another thing I noticed is that freighters don't seem to trade more with races with free trade agreements. I guess they give priority to distance first. If there are close colonies (even if they belong to races I'm not friendly with, they still prefer to go there).

In RotS I didn't cared much what the private sector was doing but for some reason I'm giving it more attention now in Legends, I hope it's not because the freighter system is worse than before. I hope not, probably this were isolated issues. After all it's just my first Legends game yet.



Erik Rutins -> RE: Civilian Freighters: The Long Haul! (12/1/2011 1:38:11 AM)

Is this with 1.7.0.2? Private sector freighter construction should be higher in 1.7.0.2 as compared to 1.7.0.0 and 1.7.0.1

Regards,

- Erik



adamsolo -> RE: Civilian Freighters: The Long Haul! (12/1/2011 2:07:47 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Is this with 1.7.0.2? Private sector freighter construction should be higher in 1.7.0.2 as compared to 1.7.0.0 and 1.7.0.1

Regards,

- Erik

I'm running 1.7.0.0
I understand there is a public beta v1.7.0.2 that has some freighter patch notes. When will that update be available through the game's update system?

\edit: Oh and I'm definitly not going to update to 1.7.0.2 after reading the "lag of horror" being reported there by everybody. Normal folk (not wanting to beta test patches) should stay away from it. They are beta updates alright :)



Erik Rutins -> RE: Civilian Freighters: The Long Haul! (12/1/2011 2:53:43 AM)

Hi Adam,

The official update should be available on Monday of next week. We're planning one more public beta and the lag issue in 1.7.0.2 is already fixed for the next build. [8D]

Regards,

- Erik



adamsolo -> RE: Civilian Freighters: The Long Haul! (12/1/2011 3:01:07 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: adamsolo
I think I found an exploit to some extent. If you want to transfer the funds from the private sector just scrap all the freighters and then the private sector will issue a massive build of freighters to replenish the ones you just scrapped. I did this twice in a row and emptied the private coffers.

Is this a known issue/exploit? I guess you can't do this often but this way we can transfer private funds to our balance everytime. Not that I'm going to do that of course (what's the fun in using exploits), but if I want to replenish freighters to new designs I will get a ton of fresh cash as bonus. Doesn't seem correct :|

\Edit: I guess the only downside of this is that you lose all the resources in the scraping correct?



Erik Rutins -> RE: Civilian Freighters: The Long Haul! (12/1/2011 3:05:36 AM)

Good question whether it is an exploit or not. It's definitely worth some consideration.

It will give you a boost in money, but there is definitely a price to be paid. You will effectively have no private sector until new ship construction is complete, which will bring resource movement, migration and trade to a halt. You can mitigate that by doing this in stages. If the private sector also runs low on income then further private sector-driven expansion will halt, which means this should give you a short term boost but reduce bonus income for a while after that.

Regards,

- Erik



adamsolo -> RE: Civilian Freighters: The Long Haul! (12/1/2011 3:16:20 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins
It will give you a boost in money, but there is definitely a price to be paid. You will effectively have no private sector until new ship construction is complete, which will bring resource movement, migration and trade to a halt.


Correct, but 300K is 300K :) However the downsides are considerable I agree.



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