Reputation not being affected much? (Full Version)

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Tanaka -> Reputation not being affected much? (11/30/2011 7:27:46 AM)

Seems like reputation hits could be much stronger. In my current game I have done almost all of these things below but my reputation is still satisfactory. And killing pirates seems like it is too much of a cheat to improve things quickly. Could reputation hits be made stronger?


Maintaining a good reputation is as important in galactic domination as in social life. Though certain empires, because of their varied forms of government, are more sensitive to the player’s reputation than others, it is imperative that the player be conscious of their reputation
in decision-making. The player’s reputation depends upon the following factors: unprovoked attacks on others, invading an independent colony rather than simply colonizing it, declaring war on another empire, failing to honor mutual defense pacts, destroying pirates (a positive effect) and intercepted intelligence missions against other empires.



MartialDoctor -> RE: Reputation not being affected much? (11/30/2011 10:30:01 AM)

Yeah, I think the way reputation now is a bit screwy.  Simply killing pirates shouldn't improve your reputation as well as it does.  There should be other ways to improve it and it should be difficult to do (e.g. being honorable for a length of time).  And I agree that some things should be more of a hit to your reputation than they currently are.

It should be easier to hurt your reputation and take more time to improve it.



Bingeling -> RE: Reputation not being affected much? (11/30/2011 11:11:34 AM)

I abused the AI in my current game and snatched their two forward colonies with no war. They got annoyed [:D].

But the reputation hit was "minor". And the pirate busting is way too powerful when it comes to reputation. What I noticed in my current game on a smaller galaxy is that everyone trades a whole lot, and this gives some crazy +25 or more modifiers that makes the lot look like a bunch of hippies.

What is -11 "we instinctively dislike you" when you have a +35 "we share a colossal amount of trade"?

I attacked the gizureans and took their homeworld and neighbour system containing a top 10 in galaxy colony. I took them to clean the border, but... Just after war ended they sent me a 20k gift, and did bounce back and forth between trading loros fruit or not. I take their goodies and they want to be friends [&:]

Darn hippies. I ponder if military strength goes into their judgement too. I am strong, but that empire is no weakling either where it hovers around 70%-ish victory score.



Tanaka -> RE: Reputation not being affected much? (11/30/2011 6:53:55 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MartialDoctor

Yeah, I think the way reputation now is a bit screwy.  Simply killing pirates shouldn't improve your reputation as well as it does.  There should be other ways to improve it and it should be difficult to do (e.g. being honorable for a length of time).  And I agree that some things should be more of a hit to your reputation than they currently are.

It should be easier to hurt your reputation and take more time to improve it.



Agreed at the moment it is just too easy to do what you want without any consequences!



Merker -> RE: Reputation not being affected much? (11/30/2011 7:13:35 PM)

Agreed, there should be serious consequences for every evil action.
Like, if you take over an independent all of your colonies with the race of the independent or smaller numbers of your race would instantly revolt so you'd need massive amounts of troops on planets.

If you attack your neighbor's freighters/stations without provocation, your private sector should go on a boycott, and your colonies wouldn't give you taxes anymore, or at least 50% reduction, for 4 months. Oh and some of your freighter fleet would join the enemy, in protest of your violent ways....

If you nuke some planet, then all the "civilized"(aka not bug) empires around suddenly declare war and launch a crusade against your capital, not making peace until it's nuked to a radioactive puddle. (see Dune books for Lansraad policy against
planet nuking)

If you destroy a planet with a WD, then every freaking empire in the galaxy would instantly make peace between themselves and declare war on you, capture your WD and destroy/nuke your top 5 colonies and production centers or just 90% of your fleet strength then make peace. Oh, and 1 of your best characters in each field would defect to the enemy(including your best admiral with 50% of your main fleet). Your faction leader would be hunted down by the new Rebellion and your enemies will try to kill him gruesomely.(check Star Wars for similar behavior).

If you fail to honor a pact, then that empire should instantly block all trade with you and get -5 relation every month against you until they're at war, and they reach -100. Afterwards stay there for 5 years and slowly, VERY slowly get back towards 0 rep.

If you kill too many pirates(like 5 clans in less than 1 year), then all pirate clans would focus their efforts on you. ignoring everyone else, until you lose 50% of your mining stations within 2 years. And you would also get -5 relation monthly with all mortalen empires(guess why?)

Oh and if you damage your reputation, you would only be able to get it back from satisfactory to let's say acceptable after 20 years of good deeds, saving the galaxy twice from the Shakturi and donating 5 million to each empire that cares about rep.(see Babylon 5 for long memory of atrocities committed by the Centauri)

How's that for consequences, ehhhhh?[8|]



Bingeling -> RE: Reputation not being affected much? (11/30/2011 9:56:30 PM)

Or there is a middle way between that and reducing the reputation from admired to respectable upon stealing two colonies.



ASHBERY76 -> RE: Reputation not being affected much? (11/30/2011 10:01:22 PM)

Yes I agree all wars and acts of aggression needs a much bigger hit.At the moment everybody seems to have a good repuation in my games.I do not think attacking pirates should improve it either as that tends to be an internal issue with local pirates that should not matter to most empires.



Cauldyth -> RE: Reputation not being affected much? (11/30/2011 10:03:45 PM)

I'm also all in favour of making the reputation hits bigger. Currently, I don't need to think much about what I do, which is a shame.



Bingeling -> RE: Reputation not being affected much? (11/30/2011 11:24:49 PM)

The problem with severely cripple the pirate busting bonus and increasing penalties, one must make something to replace them. And declaring war must not be so crippling that the AI never dares to do so.

I wonder if the lack of war mongering from the AI (only one war) means that they lose less reputation, which again gives a more peaceful galaxy. In ROTS I felt that more restless settings were easier due to this, but now I wonder if it has become different - that the normal setting is a bit peaceful.



feelotraveller -> RE: Reputation not being affected much? (12/1/2011 3:18:07 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bingeling

I wonder if the lack of war mongering from the AI (only one war) means that they lose less reputation, which again gives a more peaceful galaxy. In ROTS I felt that more restless settings were easier due to this, but now I wonder if it has become different - that the normal setting is a bit peaceful.



I haven't played with this setting in Legends yet being something of a spacetrucker. [:'(]

It is worth noting that 'restless' is the middle of that slider though.




HectorOfTroy -> RE: Reputation not being affected much? (12/1/2011 4:53:18 AM)

so far in my DW Legends game (I played at least 8 hours and all settings are on Normal), not one AI empire has declared war on another or me. The galaxy does seem more peaceful in Legends.



MartialDoctor -> RE: Reputation not being affected much? (12/1/2011 9:21:11 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: HectorOfTroy

so far in my DW Legends game (I played at least 8 hours and all settings are on Normal), not one AI empire has declared war on another or me. The galaxy does seem more peaceful in Legends.


Yes, it seems to be exactly opposite of what we had before. Before Legends, everyone wants to fight everyone. Since Legends, everyone seems more content to sit around and sip tea. Which I'd be a big fan of, if this wasn't a video game [8D]



Gelatinous Cube -> RE: Reputation not being affected much? (12/1/2011 10:20:37 AM)

Whatever. Just wait until you slip up and the AI thinks it can handle you in a war. Try it.



Cauldyth -> RE: Reputation not being affected much? (12/1/2011 12:19:04 PM)

For me, it's been highly dependent on the races that get randomly chosen.

In my first game, the galaxy was pretty evenly distributed between insects, reptiles, rodents and humanoids. These eventually developed into "power blocs" which would routinely go to war with each other. A war would break out between two members, then all of their allies would get dragged in until it developed into full galactic-scale war. There'd be peace for a while, then it would flare up again. I also saw one of the insect power blocs break down, as the more powerful member decided to thrash his junior partner. Not sure what the cause was. [:D]

In my second game, the galaxy was almost entirely rodent and humanoid. There was only one insect race, and it was doing very poorly, and the rodents and humanoids were getting along with each other as expected. War was almost unheard of. I think the AI in Legends is smart enough that the single, weak insect race was not going to go on the war path when it was surrounded by a bunch of powerful furry races, all with MDPs with each other.

In my current game, the galaxy is crawling with insects. As a result, even in the early stages they've been at war regularly - with each other and with the non-insects. One race of Boskarans conquered another race of Boskarans very early in the game.

Overall, I think it's a result of the AI playing a little more intelligently.



Bingeling -> RE: Reputation not being affected much? (12/1/2011 1:34:49 PM)

I think the AI consider their chances more than before. I would not attack me either, and the large insects seems to find other wars easily in my game. The Gizuerans have no issues about having 100% in their war mongering racial.



MartialDoctor -> RE: Reputation not being affected much? (12/1/2011 2:20:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gelatinous Cube

Whatever. Just wait until you slip up and the AI thinks it can handle you in a war. Try it.


Well, I was half joking with that; jokes never come through well on the net. Or maybe I don't make good jokes [:)] I have seen a few wars here and there and what others have said may be right, that the AI is indeed more intelligent about what wars they get into.

I haven't played enough to know as I only have time here and there to continue my game. [:(]



Tanaka -> RE: Reputation not being affected much? (12/3/2011 6:04:59 AM)

I'm still finding it way too easy for everyone to have a good reputation. Hoping this will be tweaked in the next patch!



Fideach -> RE: Reputation not being affected much? (12/3/2011 8:09:33 AM)

:( I was being evil.. I bombarded 5 fully populated planets to nothing.. unprovoked.. not at war. Paid pirates to perform attacks, gave money to hostile insect empires, along with lots of tech to make them a major pain in the rear to another empire they were at war with that I didn't like.. Invaded colonies, etc.
Yet, my reputation was "Noble".



Shark7 -> RE: Reputation not being affected much? (12/3/2011 8:12:54 AM)

Has anyone thought about modding the bias file before we start tinkering with reputation?

If you set the natural dislike biases between the races lower, they would be more inclined to go to war. [;)]



feelotraveller -> RE: Reputation not being affected much? (12/3/2011 8:13:00 AM)

All that stuff you were giving away was improving your reputation.



feelotraveller -> RE: Reputation not being affected much? (12/3/2011 8:14:51 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7

Has anyone thought about modding the bias file before we start tinkering with reputation?

If you set the natural dislike biases between the races lower, they would be more inclined to go to war. [;)]


I would agree with that but first I would bump up the aggression slider in the setup. I would hazard a guess everyone's playing on 'normal' rather than 'chaos'.



Shark7 -> RE: Reputation not being affected much? (12/3/2011 8:36:27 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: feelotraveller


quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7

Has anyone thought about modding the bias file before we start tinkering with reputation?

If you set the natural dislike biases between the races lower, they would be more inclined to go to war. [;)]


I would agree with that but first I would bump up the aggression slider in the setup. I would hazard a guess everyone's playing on 'normal' rather than 'chaos'.


Most likely. With ROTS on chaos, there was constant war. It was beautiful man. [8D]



Fideach -> RE: Reputation not being affected much? (12/3/2011 5:21:29 PM)

I play on Chaos only now. Everyone else goes to war occasionally, but most leave me alone. Even while I had a small puny empire.



Data -> RE: Reputation not being affected much? (12/4/2011 6:24:39 PM)

Chaos alone is not enough, it depends on how the other game settings are chosen....it would be interesting to compare to see from where the differences may arise.



RooksBailey -> RE: Reputation not being affected much? (12/4/2011 9:52:36 PM)

I haven't tried chaos yet, but I have been playing unstable and the galaxy is still too peaceful for me.  On one hand, I like that fact that the AI doesn't pile on from day 1 as it often does with other games, but on the other hand I do find myself becoming bored in most games.  In my last few games, I had to be the troublemaker to get things going as minding my own business seemed to make my rep skyrocket even with completely different races. 

Based on what others have said, I think the rep system does need to be less forgiving.  Perhaps that is why everyone seems to become best friends with everyone else in most games.




Bingeling -> RE: Reputation not being affected much? (12/4/2011 10:08:18 PM)

I needed to go bug swatting in my game to find some action. In my two legends games I have been attacked quite early, and in neither of them attacked since that time. I suspect that the AI is careful if they think themselves weaker.

My problem is that I generally don't attack just to attack. I do border sweeps, and retaliate on attacks. When they don't happen, the game becomes stale. If I am lucky and someone offends me, I will attack, but the border system makes careless, annoying colony placement less likely.



msnevil -> RE: Reputation not being affected much? (12/7/2011 1:44:58 PM)

I had two empires "covet" my empire from the early start until around 2820 when I just gave up. (varying between moods angry to furious, always with your stuff occuies our territory or something like that.) This was on "Unstable" aggression. With two colonies right next to my colony. And one empired had a free trade treaty with me for svl years while being furiously mad at me. - 75 :()

I had expanded to about 1\4th of a 15*15 700 system spiral galaxy. I was mutually allied to two empires who drew me into one "bug" war during this time. Which ended in two weeks. I could have easily won by just colony spamming the whole galaxy.

This game would be like star ship troopers. The "bugs" bombed the brazil town I can't spell- buanes aires?, anyway after bombing my planet. My AI controlled humans then invite them to the UN for tea and donuts. Then the shanti show up, blows up the moon, and our leaders gives them the keys to manhattan.

Reminds me of a saying about our fearless world leader, "there isn't a enemy he hasn't met that he doesn't like". While praising corperate Nationalism, and declaring war on the private sector. I hear he was also born in the suiken empire, and his world birth certificate is forged. [>:]



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