Our ignorance of your strange alien ways ... (Full Version)

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adamsolo -> Our ignorance of your strange alien ways ... (11/30/2011 7:08:33 PM)

I keep getting this message "Our ignorance of your strange alien ways causes us to distrust you." from almost all races in the diplomacy screen, even Securan which are humanoid and supposedly kin to Humans (the race I'm playing).

I don't recall seeing this message in RotS. And now it seems everybody has this extremelly negative modifier towards me. What's this all about?



Supronar -> RE: Our ignorance of your strange alien ways ... (11/30/2011 7:10:47 PM)

Hi Adam,

It's a temporary thing. All the new races will respond to you this way when they first meet you. As time passes, and they get to know you, it will slowly decrease and eventually disappear. I like it. It's a good reflection of how distrusting people can be when they first meet.



Gelatinous Cube -> RE: Our ignorance of your strange alien ways ... (11/30/2011 7:11:19 PM)

It's a way to make sure that you can't immediately start bribing people to be your friends. It decreases rather quickly over time until it is gone completely.

Other modifiers like "We Naturally Dislike You" or "We Dislike Your Style of Government" are permanent, however.



Modest -> RE: Our ignorance of your strange alien ways ... (11/30/2011 7:14:26 PM)

I am not sure about this, since I never played in Legends, but as far as I understand it this distrust is only temporary and is slowly disapearing to the moment that reaches zero and no longer contributes to negative relation. They just need some time to understand Your spieces :)



adamsolo -> RE: Our ignorance of your strange alien ways ... (11/30/2011 7:15:44 PM)

Ok, thanks for the reply Supronar.

Sounds like a cool new feature but does it make real sense for the Securans (kin to Human and Humanoid races) to state "Our ignorance of your strange alien ways..." with a -18 modifier? Hum.. Moreover these Securans are not even Cautious, they are wreckless. Sounds too much like a workaround to prevent some things like bribes as you mention GC.



Supronar -> RE: Our ignorance of your strange alien ways ... (11/30/2011 7:20:11 PM)

I was recently playing as Quagmeno and discovered another Quagmeno civilization. I may be wrong, but I think even they gave me the ignorance comment. The good news is that -18 does go down pretty quickly. They were my best friends in no time.



adamsolo -> RE: Our ignorance of your strange alien ways ... (11/30/2011 7:20:36 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Modest

I am not sure about this, since I never played in Legends, but as far as I understand it this distrust is only temporary and is slowly disapearing to the moment that reaches zero and no longer contributes to negative relation. They just need some time to understand Your spieces :)


How can you know if you didn't play Legends yet :)



Locarnus -> RE: Our ignorance of your strange alien ways ... (11/30/2011 7:43:23 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: adamsolo

Sounds like a cool new feature but does it make real sense for the Securans (kin to Human and Humanoid races) to state "Our ignorance of your strange alien ways..." with a -18 modifier? Hum.. Moreover these Securans are not even Cautious, they are wreckless. Sounds too much like a workaround to prevent some things like bribes as you mention GC.



quote:

ORIGINAL: Supronar

I was recently playing as Quagmeno and discovered another Quagmeno civilization. I may be wrong, but I think even they gave me the ignorance comment. The good news is that -18 does go down pretty quickly. They were my best friends in no time.


go to jerusalem, to the old city

Ask some inhabitants about some other group of inhabitants living 100m across the street. It sounds similar and it doesnt seem to go away for quite some time now...



adamsolo -> RE: Our ignorance of your strange alien ways ... (11/30/2011 7:48:03 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Locarnus


quote:

ORIGINAL: adamsolo

Sounds like a cool new feature but does it make real sense for the Securans (kin to Human and Humanoid races) to state "Our ignorance of your strange alien ways..." with a -18 modifier? Hum.. Moreover these Securans are not even Cautious, they are wreckless. Sounds too much like a workaround to prevent some things like bribes as you mention GC.



quote:

ORIGINAL: Supronar

I was recently playing as Quagmeno and discovered another Quagmeno civilization. I may be wrong, but I think even they gave me the ignorance comment. The good news is that -18 does go down pretty quickly. They were my best friends in no time.


go to jerusalem, to the old city

Ask some inhabitants about some other group of inhabitants living 100m across the street. It sounds similar and it doesnt seem to go away for quite some time now...


Quite an extreme example to bring wouldn't you say?

But ok, I'll give it more play time to get the taste of it, since nobody else seems to be complaining about this. I'm not saying it's a bad feature I just found it a bit artificial since almost all races were saying the same without any good reason.



Modest -> RE: Our ignorance of your strange alien ways ... (11/30/2011 8:20:39 PM)


quote:

How can you know if you didn't play Legends yet :)


I do not know where exacly I saw it, but I remember it was mentionet before Legend was out :) I was just beting now that this was not changed by now :) That is why I said at the begining "I am not sure about this..." :)



adamsolo -> RE: Our ignorance of your strange alien ways ... (11/30/2011 8:27:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Modest


quote:

How can you know if you didn't play Legends yet :)


I do not know where exacly I saw it, but I remember it was mentionet before Legend was out :) I was just beting now that this was not changed by now :) That is why I said at the begining "I am not sure about this..." :)


Ok :)



Gelatinous Cube -> RE: Our ignorance of your strange alien ways ... (12/1/2011 1:04:04 AM)

The idea is that any culture from one planet is going to find alien life of any kind on another planet hard to accept at first. The penalty goes away pretty fast. It seems like a pretty reasonable way to model culture shock to me.



Erik Rutins -> RE: Our ignorance of your strange alien ways ... (12/1/2011 1:16:35 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: adamsolo
Sounds like a cool new feature but does it make real sense for the Securans (kin to Human and Humanoid races) to state "Our ignorance of your strange alien ways..." with a -18 modifier? Hum.. Moreover these Securans are not even Cautious, they are wreckless. Sounds too much like a workaround to prevent some things like bribes as you mention GC.


Keep in mind that when two factions are similar in other ways the bonuses for "We naturally like you" and "We like your government" will counterbalance the "Your alien ways" significantly, as will the degree of friendliness for each species.

Regards,

- Erik



feelotraveller -> RE: Our ignorance of your strange alien ways ... (12/1/2011 2:39:05 AM)

As Erik said.

Strangely enough the end effect on gameplay is to make the bonuses (same family, like government, friendliness) more important. Since they effect how quickly you reach the threshold to use many friendliness producing diplomatic options with that empire.



adamsolo -> RE: Our ignorance of your strange alien ways ... (12/1/2011 2:53:03 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins


quote:

ORIGINAL: adamsolo
Sounds like a cool new feature but does it make real sense for the Securans (kin to Human and Humanoid races) to state "Our ignorance of your strange alien ways..." with a -18 modifier? Hum.. Moreover these Securans are not even Cautious, they are wreckless. Sounds too much like a workaround to prevent some things like bribes as you mention GC.


Keep in mind that when two factions are similar in other ways the bonuses for "We naturally like you" and "We like your government" will counterbalance the "Your alien ways" significantly, as will the degree of friendliness for each species.

Regards,

- Erik



Yes, but don't you find strange for a kin race to say to another "We naturally like you" and "We find your alien ways strange" at the same time? Well, as it's a temporary thing I'm ok with that I guess. It's just that it feels artificial in order not to be too friendly with other races at first contact, since if you find a kin race and bribe them you can make trade deals very rapidly. I guess this new "We find your ways etc .." modifier is just a way to slow down that too-friendly-at-first-contact side effect. But if that was the case why not provide lower modifiers for "we naturally like you" and then progressively increase that through the game instead of having a nonsensical negative modifier in the first place? Well, it's not that important in any case. But I did found this detail nonsensical and not immersive.



Erik Rutins -> RE: Our ignorance of your strange alien ways ... (12/1/2011 2:58:57 AM)

Hi Adam,

Conceptually, the "we like you" modifiers are based on fundamental compatibilities, whereas the "strange alien ways" modifier is a temporary first contact modifier. Even for the most compatible species, we are still dealing with differences that far exceed anything we have on our planet. Every alien species will seem strange in some ways at first, until you understand their language, their customs and traditions, their habits and mannerisms, body language, etiquette, etc. There are significant potential pitfalls to diplomacy with another species that don't exist within the same species.

The other ratings mitigate that by design because some species will recognize that they have things in common fairly quickly despite the more superficial and initial differences.

I hope that helps explain the philosophy behind that modifier.

Regards,

- Erik



adamsolo -> RE: Our ignorance of your strange alien ways ... (12/1/2011 3:13:49 AM)

Your explanation makes sense. It's like you saying that every first contact starts not from "zero" but from -18. Then you need to build trust from there. But them why not make 0 the starting point and then make trade and other treaties only be allowed after big positive modifiers like +20 or something (instead of current +5 or +10).

Although I agree with your explanation I don't think races should always (or almost always I can't tell) start with a -14 to -20 modifier. In the Securans / Humans example relations start very bad, in Annoyed if I recall correctly, that doesn't make sense. In that case they should start as Cautious at the minimum. But I don't remember exacty. After my 10th game probably I'll reconsider this, but my first impression was not a good one.



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