Can I prevent my auto-ships from entering Guardian space? (Full Version)

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PaulWRoberts -> Can I prevent my auto-ships from entering Guardian space? (12/3/2011 4:00:53 PM)

My empire surrounds the Ancient Guardian homeworld on three sides. They're nice enough neighbors, but they don't like it when my military ships park in their system. The problem is that they're basically sitting on a highway my commercial ships use, so my escorts (on auto-pilot) are always passing through.

Just now my relationship with the Guardians spiraled down to Furious when they attacked an escort and my other escorts (naturally) zipped in to defend their buddy.

I suspect that part of the problem is that my commercial miners keep wanting to build in Guardian space, so the escorts are parking nearby. (I don't know if moving ships trigger the "Leave our system" warning or not.) Is there a way to declare a system off-limits to ship traffic, or at least to building?



Cauldyth -> RE: Can I prevent my auto-ships from entering Guardian space? (12/3/2011 4:06:53 PM)

quote:

Is there a way to declare a system off-limits to ship traffic, or at least to building?

Sadly, no. The game really (really, really, really) needs the ability to specify certain systems as off-limits.



Erik Rutins -> RE: Can I prevent my auto-ships from entering Guardian space? (12/3/2011 4:10:45 PM)

This is on our wish list Paul, but right now there's no way to do it automatically. There is one thing you can do, which is build a space port in space near but outside the Guardian system. That will encourage most of the trade to route to the space port instead of going through their system.

Regards,

- Erik



MasterChief -> RE: Can I prevent my auto-ships from entering Guardian space? (12/3/2011 4:14:35 PM)

Ahhh man... I just had to jump on this one again and keep it alive! We soooo need to be able to identify off limits areas THAT THE AI WILL RECOGNIZE!!

I would think a restricted planet, system, and sector sphere would give us the best control but would settle for at least a system restriction ability!!

Addition: just saw your response Erik and thanks. You all put so much effort into building an incredible AI and a major "feel" of this game is allowing your empire to be as automated as you want... telling your AI ships were they can't go is an important consideration!



StarWolf -> RE: Can I prevent my auto-ships from entering Guardian space? (12/3/2011 4:36:29 PM)

What about introducing a simple waypoint system that the gamer could use to create a priority movement route segment that the AI would then follow as a higher priority over their usual routing? You could then just put down 3 or 4 waypoints to route around problematic systems. Any of your ships coming within a certain radius of one of the waypoints would then have the AI prioritze using that segment rather than the normal AI routing. Just an idea.



Data -> RE: Can I prevent my auto-ships from entering Guardian space? (12/3/2011 5:07:50 PM)

And a good one, I strongly second it.



Fideach -> RE: Can I prevent my auto-ships from entering Guardian space? (12/3/2011 5:12:29 PM)

Something easy as a temporarily work around for this would just have the ancient guardians by default, or be able to, give us military refueling rights.
So our patrols being in there system to refuel or sit ideally, or escort private sector wont cause conflict.



Sarissofoi -> RE: Can I prevent my auto-ships from entering Guardian space? (12/3/2011 7:23:47 PM)

It will be nice if you can mark Quarantine zone where any of your AI ships cant enter.



freeboy -> RE: Can I prevent my auto-ships from entering Guardian space? (12/3/2011 8:53:38 PM)

no fly zones.. war zones  restrictd shipping lanes all diplomatic and ai comerce related.. so this is not just adding it but testing how it all relates..
great ideas though.. kinda sux having your civilians piss off the sleeping giants.. "oh no is that a " trasnission interupted[:D]



MasterChief -> RE: Can I prevent my auto-ships from entering Guardian space? (12/4/2011 12:44:20 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: freeboy

no fly zones.. war zones  restrictd shipping lanes all diplomatic and ai comerce related.. so this is not just adding it but testing how it all relates..
great ideas though.. kinda sux having your civilians piss off the sleeping giants.. "oh no is that a " trasnission interupted[:D]


yeah that's why I was thinking to limit the scope only apply to your ships...seems that would be easier to implement. However, longer term, perhaps DWII, being able to set restricted areas (perhaps you are rehabing a world destroyer you don't want anyone to know about), unrestriceted warfare zones (I am blockading this planet and will destroy anything ...friend or foe that comes near), quaratines (for Silvermist or plaque systems) or protective enclacves (we are protecting this independent colony planet so stay clear). You get the idea.

StarWolf... the waypoint idea is great.



2ndACR -> RE: Can I prevent my auto-ships from entering Guardian space? (12/4/2011 2:56:00 AM)

We really need a way to keep our military ships out of areas. I just had the ancient's go on a spree on my shipping because I would have to spend every moment just micromanaging my ships to keep them out of their space. Heck, I just moved 17 warships out of their space and had another 20 go right back in not 2 min later. This is killing the game for me.

It is bad enough they plant mining bases on some of the best resource locations around.



Neotheone -> RE: Can I prevent my auto-ships from entering Guardian space? (12/4/2011 3:13:20 AM)

Perhaps they could create an anti-traffic satellite that the player could place in the area and then all player controlled ai ships would not go there? You could turn them on or off and if they were off then the players ships wouldn't go there. Would be something the player/ai would have to build and distribute either automated or manually. Could create another commodity Navigation Satellites for sale.



Erik Rutins -> RE: Can I prevent my auto-ships from entering Guardian space? (12/4/2011 3:19:38 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: 2ndACR
We really need a way to keep our military ships out of areas. I just had the ancient's go on a spree on my shipping because I would have to spend every moment just micromanaging my ships to keep them out of their space. Heck, I just moved 17 warships out of their space and had another 20 go right back in not 2 min later. This is killing the game for me.


Do you have any idea why your military ships are going into the Ancient Guardians' system? I haven't had that issue with them with the Return of the Shakturi storyline turned on. Do you have a save file that shows your ships heading back there on a regular basis?

Regards,

- Erik



2ndACR -> RE: Can I prevent my auto-ships from entering Guardian space? (12/4/2011 3:29:22 AM)

I bet I can find the last auto save. I have no clue, every once and awhile I see one escorting a civilian ship there. I am not sure of the attraction. I know I have a save that should show a flood of ships flocking to a Guardian mining station for same danged reason. 



Grotius -> RE: Can I prevent my auto-ships from entering Guardian space? (12/4/2011 5:17:44 AM)

I've been turning my military ships around manually. Well, I was, until I lost all my remaining ships. :)

But yes, I agree, it would be very helpful to have an automated way to avoid such places.



Bingeling -> RE: Can I prevent my auto-ships from entering Guardian space? (12/4/2011 9:41:38 AM)

Why the AI does that? I wondered about that as well.

I was looking at those stupid frigates, and the move vectors are really nice to see strange stuff by the AI. As far as I see, the frigates got the "move to" order. Or the "no order". There is nothing of mine in the guardian system at this time, apart from a bunch of frigates. I have seen them busily head for the other side of the gas giant they were currently at.

I think that what may go on is the AI wanting to respond to perceived threats. And the guardians got a whole lot of contested mining bases, which the AI sometime suggests we should try blow up with a spy. So they annoy the AI.

I have seen some crazy move vector action going on if the AI got a fleet at a contested mining base (but not the guardians, other empires). 10-20 automated frigates it seems, all heading to the spot. It is like "I really want to send a fleet here, but since the stupid human has no automated fleets for me to use, I will just send 20 frigates, pretending they are a fleet!".

So what if... The guardians got a little fleet at their contested mining base. Some AI frigates gets the "move to fleet order" because such blatant provocation should have a response. Either before or after they reach the target fleet, the target fleet moves back home to refuel at the gas mine. The approaching frigates get (or create) the modified order "move to point in space where the gas mine is" (because that is where the fleet is at). But when they get there, the fleet is long gone.

And what does an automated frigate with no work do? It sits around. Does it care where it sits around? Apparently not. So it sits around in the guardian system annoying the guardians. And the guardian starts sending diplomatic demands of "remove forces from system". What should an automated frigate with no order do? I suggest it should "refuel at nearest space port" to make it go home. I usually do that with colony ships that finds their target already colonized. For automated military ships it would be better to "refuel at nearest empire owned fuel source", but given the new military refueling rights, refueling to nearest fuel source would probably work too. If not empire owned, it is owned by a good friend. If frigates with no work tend to end up sitting besides my gas mines, I would think if that as a good thing. That is often where they will be needed.




Upuauta -> RE: Can I prevent my auto-ships from entering Guardian space? (12/4/2011 1:34:49 PM)

Hello,

In my current game I have the same issue.
Single ships are flying into guardian territory to a guardian station and try to refuel there (without refuel-rights of cause). The Guardians are annoyed of this and ask me to move my ships out of the system. I could provide a save-file if someone could point me where to find the file as I wasnīt able to find the safe file.
An Option to mark systems as off-limits would be really usefull.

Edit:
Ah, finally I found the safe file (Grml, why are games nowadays not saving in itīs directories anymore... :-( )
Here is a link to the file:
http://www.file-upload.net/download-3927559/UPULAND.dwg.html
Take a look in the message history there you find some examples. Also in the guardian system "Yurn Scut" you can find an explorer ship. It has no mission now, but had a refuel mission before and tried to refuel at the guardian station. If you play for a while Iīm sure more ships will show up in that system.
Hope this helps.

Edit2: Oh and btw, donīt laugh about my puny little empire. ;-)



Upuauta -> RE: Can I prevent my auto-ships from entering Guardian space? (12/6/2011 8:57:07 PM)

Hi,
This issue getīs worse. Now every second ship needing to refuel flies straight to the guardians and tries to refuel at their base. And the Guardians slowly but surely get mad at me. I think if this canīt be solved war is the next step. I really donīt want to go to war with them - they are much stronger than me.
I would really be glad to get an option to declare no-fly-zones or declare a system as forbidden.



colonyan -> RE: Can I prevent my auto-ships from entering Guardian space? (12/6/2011 11:35:10 PM)

Before this gets fixed, are there any way getting lid out the Ancient Gurardians?
Seems like they don't do anything significant from what I've played so far.
If they are gone, this problem is half solved for time being....



Bison36 -> RE: Can I prevent my auto-ships from entering Guardian space? (12/6/2011 11:50:02 PM)

Why is the SOI not the mechanism to cause ships, state or civilian, to by pass a system where there is not a treaty in place, such as refueling, military, free trade?




Bingeling -> RE: Can I prevent my auto-ships from entering Guardian space? (12/7/2011 12:30:54 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: colonyan

Before this gets fixed, are there any way getting lid out the Ancient Gurardians?
Seems like they don't do anything significant from what I've played so far.
If they are gone, this problem is half solved for time being....


The guardians are a feature of the Return of the Shakturi storyline. How to get rid of them? You can enter the editor and remove anything you like. Or you can have a fun little war trying to wipe them out (which may fail miserably considering their tech).

If you start a new game, disabling the shakturi storyline is the solution.



the1sean -> RE: Can I prevent my auto-ships from entering Guardian space? (12/7/2011 5:35:34 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bingeling

If you start a new game, disabling the shakturi storyline is the solution.

Bingo.



Upuauta -> RE: Can I prevent my auto-ships from entering Guardian space? (12/7/2011 5:54:11 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: the1sean


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bingeling

If you start a new game, disabling the shakturi storyline is the solution.

Bingo.



Hm, this would solve the problem, but I like the shakturi content. Disabling a big part of the game because of a strange behavior of the ships shouldnīt be the final solution for this. Is it so difficult to just implement something to mark a system so no ships can fly in there anymore?



HectorOfTroy -> RE: Can I prevent my auto-ships from entering Guardian space? (12/7/2011 6:40:22 PM)

What race are you playing? I'm playing humans and my private ships do go sometimes to Guardian space, but Guardians don't get angry cause they like my race. Also I play with my military ships on manual so they never go to Guardian space.



Neotheone -> RE: Can I prevent my auto-ships from entering Guardian space? (12/7/2011 11:07:48 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bingeling

quote:

ORIGINAL: colonyan

Before this gets fixed, are there any way getting lid out the Ancient Gurardians?
Seems like they don't do anything significant from what I've played so far.
If they are gone, this problem is half solved for time being....


The guardians are a feature of the Return of the Shakturi storyline. How to get rid of them? You can enter the editor and remove anything you like. Or you can have a fun little war trying to wipe them out (which may fail miserably considering their tech).

If you start a new game, disabling the shakturi storyline is the solution.


Yeah this suxs they start right near next to me and I lost 40 ships just trying to take out one of their defense bases. I don't want to disable anything since I just got all of this main game and both expansions but seriously right next to me? Couldn't they have put them distant like I setup all the other ai opponents?



Krippakrull -> RE: Can I prevent my auto-ships from entering Guardian space? (12/7/2011 11:17:34 PM)

Another workaround while waiting for a fix is giving them mining and military refueling rights in your territory. From that point onwards your automated ships will ignore the Guardians, though of course they will build quite a bunch of mining stations in your territory. Mostly you can even get away with killing off a mining base or two of theirs (if they are at really valuable spots) without them going mental on you. Not ideal, but for me it's a better solution than disabling the storyline totally.



Erik Rutins -> RE: Can I prevent my auto-ships from entering Guardian space? (12/7/2011 11:31:50 PM)

Just FYI, with 1.7.0.5 this should no longer happen.

Regards,

- Erik



Upuauta -> RE: Can I prevent my auto-ships from entering Guardian space? (12/8/2011 5:02:49 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Just FYI, with 1.7.0.5 this should no longer happen.


Thx, thatīs great news to me. Where can I get this patch? I tried the update loader but it says my version is actual but itīs still 1.7.0.0.



Evrett -> RE: Can I prevent my auto-ships from entering Guardian space? (12/8/2011 5:54:57 PM)

The patch is still in public beta..there is a link stickies at the top of this forum but you have to register your game (become a "member") to get access to the download..I read somewhere that they were aim to release the collection of beta patches to the public like this friday

here is the link http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2975519



Upuauta -> RE: Can I prevent my auto-ships from entering Guardian space? (12/8/2011 6:28:25 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Evrett
The patch is still in public beta..there is a link stickies at the top of this forum but you have to register your game (become a "member") to get access to the download..I read somewhere that they were aim to release the collection of beta patches to the public like this friday
here is the link http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2975519


Shame on me. I missed that thread totally. [sm=innocent0009.gif] Thx for the info. A patch on a friday - that means a nice weekend for me. [:)]



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