aspqrz02 -> RE: RAF is too vulnerable (12/29/2011 3:57:26 PM)
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ORIGINAL: Severian @aspqrz I can not agree with you. If you had diffrent sources - show them. 1. Royal Navy b) Battleships and battlecruisers: - 2nd Battle Squadron, radm Blagoven, Scapa Flow, Home Fleet -- HMS Royal Sovereign -- HMS Ramillies -- HMS Royal Oak -- HMS Nelson -- HMS Rodney - Battle Cruiser Squadron, radm. Whitworth, Scapa Flow, Home Fleet -- HMS Repulse -- HMS Hood -- HMS Renown (at sea to the Scapa Flow) - 1st Battle Squadron, vadm Layton, Alexandria, Egypt, Mediterrean Fleet -- HMS Warspite -- HMS Barham -- HMS Malaya - Reserve Fleet, vadm Horton -- HMS Valiant, Devonport -- HMS Queen Elisabeth, Portsmouth - 3rd Battle Squadron, radm Holland, Portland, Channel Force -- HMS Resolution -- HMS Revenge Summary: 12 BB's, 3 BC's http://ww2total.com/WW2/History/Orders-of-Battle/Fleets-September-1939.htm Cites 15 BB/BC total, but only 7 in the Home Fleet, 2 in Home Waters and 3 in Alexandria Doesn't indicate where the other three are, and doesn't give names of ships. quote:
ORIGINAL: Severian c) Cruisers - heavy, light, antiaircraft - 18th Cruiser Squadron, radm Halifax, Scapa Flow, Home Fleet -- HMS Aurora -- HMS Sheffield -- HMS Belfast -- HMS Edinburgh -- HMS Norfolk -- HMS Newcastle - HMS Calcutta, Home Fleet - 1st Cruiser Squadron, vadm Cunnigham, Alexandria, Egypt, Mediterranean Fleet -- HMS Devonshire -- HMS Shropshire -- HMS Sussex - 3rd Cruiser Squadron, radm Moore, Alexandria, Egypt, Mediterranean Fleet -- HMS Arethusa -- HMS Penelope -- HMS Galatea - Reserve Fleet -- HMS Hawkins -- HMS Frobisher -- HMS Carlisle -- HMS Curlew - Nore Command -- HMS London -- HMS Curacao - Portsmouth Command -- HMS Suffolk - 2nd Cruiser Squadron, vadm Edwards-Collins, Humber, Humber Force -- HMS Southampton -- HMS Glasgow - Channel Force, Portland -- HMS Ceres -- HMS Caradoc -- HMS Cairo - 7th Cruiser Squadron, cpt Dicken, Scapa Flow, Northern Patrol -- HMS Diomede -- HMS Dragon -- HMS Calypso -- HMS Caledon - 12th Cruiser Squadron, vadm Horton, Scapa Flow, Northern Patrol -- HMS Effingham -- HMS Cardiff -- HMS Dunedin -- HMS Emerald -- HMS Enterprise, Portsmouth -- HMS Delhi, The Nore - 11th Cruiser Squadron, cpt Scott, Gibraltar, North Atlantic Command -- HMS Colombo -- HMS Capetown Summary: 38 cruisers Off-map: - 6th Cruiser Squadron, Freetwon -- HMS Neptune - 9th Cruiser Squadron, Freetown -- HMS Despatch -- HMS Danae -- HMS Dauntless -- HMS Durban - South America Division, Port Stanley -- HMS Exeter -- HMS Ajax -- HMS Cumberland - 8th Cruiser Squadron, America & West Indies Command -- HMS Berwick -- HMS York -- HMS Orion -- HMS Perth (Royal Australian Navy) - 5th Cruiser Squadron, China Station -- HMS Kent -- HMS Cornwall -- HMS Dorsetshire -- HMS Birmingham - 4th Cruiser Squadron, Ceylon -- HMS Gloucester -- HMS Liverpool -- HMS Manchester According to the same source, 15 CA/CL in Home Fleet, 2 in North Atlantic Command, 5 in Home Waters and 6 in Alexandria Total 28 They had 48 CA/CL all up, with a further 8 RAN or RNZN. Source doesn't provide names, sadly. And, an oopsie, I missed the 8 CLAA and 1 CLM, making it 56 RN and 8 RAN/RNZN CA/CL quote:
ORIGINAL: Severian There is too many DD's and SS's to show you everyone. Another oopsie ... 113 Modern DD 68 Old DD 181 total However, source indicates ... 17 with Home Fleet, 9 with North Atlantic Command, 65 in Home Waters, 31 (+4 Escorts) in Alex. Total = 122 (+4 Escorts) 65 Subs (53 Modern, 12 Old) 21 with Home Fleet, 2 in North Atlantic Command, 10 in Alex Total = 33 I didn't include Minesweepers (44 total: 7 Home Fleet, 2 North Atlantic Command, 12 Home Waters, 5 Alex) or Escorts (48 + 4 RAN and 2 RInN: no breakdown) or the 2 Monitors (no breakdown, but I believe they started the war in the UK or Med) quote:
ORIGINAL: Severian 2. Marine Nationale: a) Battleships and battlecruisers - 1st Battle Division, Brest -- Dunkerque -- Strasbourg - 2nd Battle Division, Oran -- Lorraine -- Bretagne - 3rd Battle Division, Brest -- Paris -- Courbet - Reserve units: -- Provence (scuttled in Toulon, 1942, sister-ship to the Bretagne and Lorraine) Summary: 7 BB's and BC's (I will include Provence in next patch) And why in ToF is so many French BB's? Cause of mistake. Few cruisers (Algerie, Foch, Dupleix, Duquesne and Tourville) are included with wrong type ID. Good to hear! Source cited, 7 BB/BC 3 in Med, 2 in Atlantic ... doesn't seem to include those in North Africa quote:
ORIGINAL: Severian b) Cruisers - 4th Cruiser Divisiion, Brest -- Georges Leygues -- Gloire -- Montcalm - 1st Cruiser Squadron -- Algerie -- Foch -- Dupleix -- Duguesne -- Colbert -- Tourville - 3rd Cruiser Division, Bizerte -- Marseillaise -- Jean De Vienne -- La Galisonniere Summary: 12 cruisers 7 CA, 12 CL = 19 Cruisers, total 10 Med, 3 Atlantic (again, I suspect it may not include North Africa) quote:
ORIGINAL: Severian 3. Kriegsmarine 1. Battleships and battlecruisers - Scharnhorst - Gneisenau - Schleswig-Holstein - Schlesien And that's all. German themselve reclassifed "pocket battleships" as heavy cruisers. In fact term "pocket battleship" was idea of British press and had no connection to official naval classification. Whole Deutschland-class was heavily armed, but their armour and gun caliber was far less than classic dreadnought-battleship. Their only advantage in such meeting is speed to escape from battlefield. German admirals was aware about that and gave orders to avoid battle to any British battleship including oldest Revenge-class, so if decision about classification them in ToF as battleships would be wrong. Source, 2 BB, 2 Old BB, 3 PB So, should be 4 BB, with the 2 Old BB being TL1, presumably, or reduced strength. quote:
ORIGINAL: Severian 2. Cruisers: - Admiral Graf Spee - Deutschland - Admiral Scheer - Admiral Hipper - Konigsberg - Emden - Karlsruhe - Koln - Lepizig - Nunberg Summary: 10 cruisers In fact now it's still missing one in ToF - Emden 2 CA, 6 CL = 8 Cruisers, + 2 PB = 10 OK. 22 DDs, 62 SSs Only 45 SSs were operational, 12 were training boats or still undergoing trials ("The U-Boat Offensive 1914-45" V. E. Tarrant)_ quote:
ORIGINAL: Severian That's the best I have at the moment. Phil
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