Reality check for all us JFBs (Full Version)

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Miller -> Reality check for all us JFBs (12/23/2011 5:31:03 PM)

Total US combat ship losses (DD or larger) in the pacific during WW2:

4 CV
1 CVL
5 CVE
2 BB
7 CA
1 CL
2 CLAA
50-ish DD

DD losses aside, an Allied player could lose that much in the space of 2 days in AE[X(]



John 3rd -> RE: Reality check for all us JFBs (12/23/2011 5:47:22 PM)

Because we JFB are FAAAAAR cooler then the real life Japanese!

BANZAI!

[sm=character0095.gif]



tocaff -> RE: Reality check for all us JFBs (12/23/2011 6:00:32 PM)

Because the IJN used inferior tactics in real life and JFBs work the game instead.



Commander Stormwolf -> RE: Reality check for all us JFBs (12/23/2011 6:09:00 PM)

main thing is that JFB can produce about 5x the number of aircraft as they did IRL



[image]local://upfiles/28382/3EE8678BA6A94DA88B37FCB60118AA87.jpg[/image]



PaxMondo -> RE: Reality check for all us JFBs (12/23/2011 6:10:45 PM)

I would tend to think the opposite: all players are not nearly as risk averse with their assets as historically was the case.

Nimitz was extremely methodical and careful in everything he did with the exception of Guadacanal. That was a shoestring and a close call. After that though, minimal risk for maximum gain was the watch word.



Commander Stormwolf -> RE: Reality check for all us JFBs (12/23/2011 6:12:55 PM)

B-24 .. as far as you can see

[image]local://upfiles/28382/1545F299DE764FD19B0D6632E0393F04.jpg[/image]



Cavalry Corp -> RE: Reality check for all us JFBs (12/23/2011 6:16:12 PM)

I see its the one at the back thats finished - LOL

Impressive...



ny59giants -> RE: Reality check for all us JFBs (12/23/2011 6:36:52 PM)

If we can just get MichaelM to 'enhance' the code to get hindsight removed. [:D]



John 3rd -> RE: Reality check for all us JFBs (12/23/2011 6:39:45 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Commander Stormwolf

B-24 .. as far as you can see

[image]local://upfiles/28382/1545F299DE764FD19B0D6632E0393F04.jpg[/image]


THIS is why we JFBs have no hope NO MATTER WHAT!

[sm=Crazy-1271.gif]



Commander Stormwolf -> RE: Reality check for all us JFBs (12/23/2011 6:59:53 PM)

quality has a quantity all its own

[image]local://upfiles/28382/448E4611DCC14100A06275CAF26DB3CA.jpg[/image]

could have put more armor and torpedoes, instead of the fuel



Commander Stormwolf -> RE: Reality check for all us JFBs (12/23/2011 7:12:07 PM)

speed


[image]local://upfiles/28382/6A72CF3E3E6E464E9233300BB82F5CFD.jpg[/image]


(japan had 3 of these since 1940)
(didn't produce, not maneouverable enough [8|])



Commander Stormwolf -> RE: Reality check for all us JFBs (12/23/2011 7:16:06 PM)

climb rate

[image]local://upfiles/28382/5D4A6603A1E4499785063E98187DB463.jpg[/image]

needs a Mitsubishi Kasei, some 20mm cannons



Commander Stormwolf -> RE: Reality check for all us JFBs (12/23/2011 7:19:40 PM)

maneouverability


[image]local://upfiles/28382/9176EBB21821499F9875AFB1F74674AE.gif[/image]

reduce the fuel, reduce the armament to 2x20mm on the nose
now the A6M2 flies 350mph with 94kg/m2 wing loading

hit me if you can..



GenChaos33 -> RE: Reality check for all us JFBs (12/23/2011 9:34:05 PM)

Hey!!! Lets not forget about the 52 SS. Don't make me mad!!!! Never forget....



crsutton -> RE: Reality check for all us JFBs (12/23/2011 9:36:03 PM)

Because if the game played out like the real deal, Japanese players would be as rare as male calico cats....[8|]



freeboy -> RE: Reality check for all us JFBs (12/23/2011 9:49:54 PM)

did you omit the losses at pearl?
that is an amazing feature..
what about brit and dutch losses?



Chickenboy -> RE: Reality check for all us JFBs (12/23/2011 10:14:42 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: freeboy

did you omit the losses at pearl?

Don't think so. These were US Navy losses, not Allied losses. I think that the Oklahoma and the Arizona were the only to USN BBs lost during the war.



Gridley380 -> RE: Reality check for all us JFBs (12/23/2011 11:22:12 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Miller

Total US combat ship losses (DD or larger) in the pacific during WW2:

4 CV
1 CVL
5 CVE
2 BB
7 CA
1 CL
2 CLAA
50-ish DD

DD losses aside, an Allied player could lose that much in the space of 2 days in AE[X(]


And don't forget: all four of the CVs, both BBs, 5 CA, both CLAAs, and a bunch of the DD were lost in 1941/1942.

Post-1942 the USN in ALL theaters lost:

1 CVL
6 CVE
2 CA
1 CL
45 DD
15 DE
44 SS



spence -> RE: Reality check for all us JFBs (12/23/2011 11:46:43 PM)

quote:

Hey!!! Lets not forget about the 52 SS.


A lost ship and crew is bad no matter how but if you omit the losses to the hazards of the sea such as running aground and fires at sea and incidences of friendly fire the Japanese only get to claim 40 or so subs.



Commander Stormwolf -> RE: Reality check for all us JFBs (12/23/2011 11:53:02 PM)

I-19 sank the wasp
I-168 sank the yorktown

japanese submarines saved the IJN from total humiliation in 1942



sdevault -> RE: Reality check for all us JFBs (12/23/2011 11:53:04 PM)

The book Blood on the Sea tells the story of all DD's lost.
"Seventy-one American destroyers were lost during WWII, 60 of them in confrontations with enemy ships, planes, shore batteries and mines, the other 11 to accidental groundings, friendly mines or severe storms."



Chickenboy -> RE: Reality check for all us JFBs (12/24/2011 3:16:30 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gridley380


quote:

ORIGINAL: Miller

Total US combat ship losses (DD or larger) in the pacific during WW2:

4 CV
1 CVL
5 CVE
2 BB
7 CA
1 CL
2 CLAA
50-ish DD

DD losses aside, an Allied player could lose that much in the space of 2 days in AE[X(]


And don't forget: all four of the CVs, both BBs, 5 CA, both CLAAs, and a bunch of the DD were lost in 1941/1942.

Post-1942 the USN in ALL theaters lost:

1 CVL
6 CVE
2 CA
1 CL
45 DD
15 DE
44 SS

Wow. Very interesting...



Bliztk -> RE: Reality check for all us JFBs (12/24/2011 3:41:46 AM)

Hindsight is 20/20. Also we both JFB and AFB operate with 1950 tactics, not with unproved 1935 tactics.

Not having to write 1500 letters to the mothers of your latest failure works wonders too



Alfred -> RE: Reality check for all us JFBs (12/24/2011 3:54:41 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bliztk

... Not having to write 1500 letters to the mothers of your latest failure works wonders too



Absolutely spot on.

I am constantly shrugging my head at all the players who insist on "realistic" play, "realistic" game code etc and then their play bears no resemblance to real world factors, of which the writing of 1500 letters to mothers fully captures what is "reality" in life.

Too many players around here criticise the real historical figures when the fact is that even the most incompetent historical figure was more qualified to cope with the real world pressures they faced than the egos of the virtual warlords here would allow.

Alfred



SuluSea -> RE: Reality check for all us JFBs (12/24/2011 4:31:37 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred


Too many players around here criticise the real historical figures when the fact is that even the most incompetent historical figure was more qualified to cope with the real world pressures they faced than the egos of the virtual warlords here would allow.

Alfred

Alfred my friend, if there were ever a sentence written on this forum more deserving of a sig line I haven't seen it. Superb & Have a great holiday!!



Sardaukar -> RE: Reality check for all us JFBs (12/24/2011 2:38:29 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bliztk

... Not having to write 1500 letters to the mothers of your latest failure works wonders too



***

Too many players around here criticise the real historical figures when the fact is that even the most incompetent historical figure was more qualified to cope with the real world pressures they faced than the egos of the virtual warlords here would allow.

Alfred


Even Percival? [:'(]

Even my military training tells me that allowing troops to dig in does not demoralize them...



vettim89 -> RE: Reality check for all us JFBs (12/24/2011 2:58:26 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

Because if the game played out like the real deal, Japanese players would be as rare as male calico cats....[8|]


Only a few os us get that (Chickenboy?). I think I have seen two in 22 yeasr of practice



Alfred -> RE: Reality check for all us JFBs (12/24/2011 3:15:57 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bliztk

... Not having to write 1500 letters to the mothers of your latest failure works wonders too



***

Too many players around here criticise the real historical figures when the fact is that even the most incompetent historical figure was more qualified to cope with the real world pressures they faced than the egos of the virtual warlords here would allow.

Alfred


Even Percival? [:'(]

Even my military training tells me that allowing troops to dig in does not demoralize them...



Yes, even Percival.

Percival served as a scapegoat for the British army's institutional military deficiencies. He received the blame for the many mistakes made by both his subordinates and superiors. There was not a single British general in December 1941 who would have performed better than Percival did.

1. Operation "Matador" was the only realistic chance the British had in December 1941 to significantly delay the Japanese. That it was not put into operation was entirely the fault of Percival's superiors.

2. Percival did not prevent the troops from digging in. British troops did dig in but their flanks were always left open becuase there simply were not enough troops present in Malaya. Again not Percival's fault as he had already identified in his first tour of duty in Malaya the great shortage of infantry.

3. It was not Percival's decision to organise his forces into penny packets. His orders were to defend the airfields. He was thus left in a completely invidious position, forced to defend what could not be defended with inadequate forces. It wasn't percival who had decided to build and position the airfields in such vulnerable positions in the first place.

4. Percival was not authorised to expend more than 500 pounds. Just how much fortification do you think 500 pounds builds you?

5. The governor of Malaya insisted, and had the authority to impose his decision on Percival, to maximise the export of rubber and tin at the expense of any military preparation to oppose the Japanese. Thus percival found himself lacking both the funds and the civilian labour to build defences.

I'll leave it at that for to continue to explain the difficulties Percival laboured under would completely hijack this thread.

Alfred



sdevault -> RE: Reality check for all us JFBs (12/24/2011 3:23:58 PM)

Most of the early commanders were caught in a no win scenario. Antiquated equipment, limited equipment and troops, and governments unwilling to establish an effective war policy until it was too late.



Chickenboy -> RE: Reality check for all us JFBs (12/24/2011 4:15:15 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: vettim89


quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

Because if the game played out like the real deal, Japanese players would be as rare as male calico cats....[8|]


Only a few os us get that (Chickenboy?). I think I have seen two in 22 yeasr of practice


I got it. I was thinking of something more agricultural, such as a fertile freemartin or pseudohermaphrodite or friendly chow. [;)]



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