Large carrier air group coordination (Full Version)

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WITPPL -> Large carrier air group coordination (1/10/2012 3:39:10 PM)

Gentlemen,

I was away for a few years. How does it work now? We used to split our carriers for a better coordination of our air strikes, byt it seems to me that it is not necessary at the moment. how does it work now?



hades1001 -> RE: Large carrier air group coordination (1/10/2012 3:45:52 PM)

it's still the same way to get best coordination.

Coordination rule haven't changed.



Miller -> RE: Large carrier air group coordination (1/10/2012 8:19:35 PM)

Three basic factors in my experience:

1) Less than 200 a/c per Air Combat TF

2) TF commanders with high air skill (70+)

3) Weather



HansBolter -> RE: Large carrier air group coordination (1/10/2012 9:16:24 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Miller

1) Less than 200 a/c per Air Combat TF




This may be true for Japan, but isn't it a graduating scale over time for the Allies?



Gridley380 -> RE: Large carrier air group coordination (1/11/2012 1:24:08 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter


quote:

ORIGINAL: Miller

1) Less than 200 a/c per Air Combat TF




This may be true for Japan, but isn't it a graduating scale over time for the Allies?


Per the manual, yes. There's also a random number in there.



Omat -> RE: Large carrier air group coordination (1/11/2012 9:06:45 PM)

Hello

Maybe this thead is interessting for you. It is more generally about
Air Mission Coordination.

The Air Mission Coordination Guide v2.1

Hope it helps..

Omat



dr.hal -> RE: Large carrier air group coordination (1/13/2012 5:17:21 PM)

Do the same rules apply to British carriers? They didn't suffer from the same problems that US carriers did, however they didn't operate together very often IIRC. Just wondering. On a related note, is there a penalty for operating different nationalities together in the same TF? I'm thinking of the ABDA fiascoes... Hal



Gridley380 -> RE: Large carrier air group coordination (1/16/2012 6:03:29 PM)

BTW, per the manual, coordination problems are more probable if the US exceeds the following number of A/C per TF:

1942: 100+rnd100
1943: 150+rnd150
1944+: 200+rnd200

The 1944 number also applies to the Japanese throughout the game.



Alfred -> RE: Large carrier air group coordination (1/17/2012 2:59:15 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: dr.hal

Do the same rules apply to British carriers? They didn't suffer from the same problems that US carriers did, however they didn't operate together very often IIRC. Just wondering. On a related note, is there a penalty for operating different nationalities together in the same TF? I'm thinking of the ABDA fiascoes... Hal


Yes applies to British carriers too. If operating on a national fleet basis it is most unlikely you will ever accumulate sufficient British carrier planes to test the co-ordination limits. However if you add a British carrier to an American carrier TF, the British carrier planes also need to be factored into the calculations.

Unfortunately there is no penalty for operating different nationalities together in the same TF, or airfield, or trench/foxhole. The different doctrines and different logistical difficulties are just not represented in the game. Nor is the absence of proper chains of command penalised. Thus you see the quite ahistorical multinational forces cobbled together with no negative moddifiers. Players don't complain about that because it makes playing the game easier for them but they will complain about something else under the cry of it not being "historical" if the change would make the game easier for them to play.

There is an awful lot of intellectual dishonesty found on the forum.

Alfred



Admiral Mitscher -> RE: Large carrier air group coordination (1/17/2012 3:58:53 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

There is an awful lot of intellectual dishonesty found on the forum.

Alfred


I for one are guilty of this condition, but I call it selective self deception. [:D]



bradfordkay -> RE: Large carrier air group coordination (1/17/2012 4:06:46 AM)

Aside from the disastrous attempts at international cooperation during the ABDA defense of the NEI there were many occasions that commonwealth forces worked together with the USN during the Pacific War. RN, RAN, RCN and RNZN vessels were incorporated into USN TFs on several occasions. Why is it intellectually dishonest to accept and recreate these occurrences?



Gridley380 -> RE: Large carrier air group coordination (1/17/2012 6:07:37 PM)

It would help if you could filter by nationality when forming TFs, but you can't.

Of course some of us have been studying the Pacific War long enough that we can figure out a ship's nationality by its name/class most of the time, but I suspect there are many skilled players who don't spend hours studying USN ship lists. ;-)



dr.hal -> RE: Large carrier air group coordination (1/17/2012 8:59:16 PM)

Thanks Alfred, I do know that differing nationalities have an impact in naval operations and this is even between countries that speak the same language (somewhat). In relation to Bradfordkay's input, and having been there, operational doctrine can cause some serious problems and that doctrine only has to differ in detail to have a serious impact. That's why NATO created a common multi language doctrine document, found on every NATO member ship's bridge (including the Soviet's I'm sure) in an attempt to soften that impact. It is a flaw in the path to a reflection of reality on the game's part. But as a math person would say, "it's like halving the distance to a wall, you never get there". At some point you have to put playability first over historical accuracy. Having said that, I would have thought SOME small factor thrown in, along the lines of A/C coordination, for some of the die rolls might have been in order. For historical accuracy as an Allied player, I do try to keep like nationalities together, as I feel it my small concession to a more realistic play that is not reflected in any rule. But I hope my opponent Paul will not read about this, it is my secret.... Hal



HansBolter -> RE: Large carrier air group coordination (1/17/2012 9:28:51 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gridley380

It would help if you could filter by nationality when forming TFs, but you can't.

Of course some of us have been studying the Pacific War long enough that we can figure out a ship's nationality by its name/class most of the time, but I suspect there are many skilled players who don't spend hours studying USN ship lists. ;-)




you can, but it's a bit tedious. while the nationalities don't appear with the ship names in the selection list while forming TFs, they did add a color highlighted text near the bottom center of the ship selection list interface to be able to examine the ship wherein you can see what type of armaments it has (which helps to sure you're selecting the right class destroyers for maximizing torp attack for surface TFs, depth charge types and numbers for ASW TFs, and AA for carrier TFs....etc...) and what nationality it belongs to before committing it to the TF.



Gunner98 -> RE: Large carrier air group coordination (1/17/2012 10:14:50 PM)

An indicator of the leader's nationality would be good as well. In the DEI I like to organize around national lines and have one Dutch, one US and one Brit/Aus TF. But as damage occurs, I keep switching the ships in and out of the TFs while keeping the original leaders - its easy to get messed up and have a Dutch admiral commanding a TF with only non-Dutch ships. Not very realistic but it happens...

B



dr.hal -> RE: Large carrier air group coordination (1/17/2012 11:26:55 PM)

Hans I don't remember seeing this, are you using the latest beta?? Hal



DaveConn -> RE: Large carrier air group coordination (1/18/2012 5:29:22 PM)

Not sure when it was added, but there is blue text at the top of the ship selection screen telling you that a right-click on a ship will show the ship's info.



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