Mortars, Howitzers as part of another unit (Full Version)

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Grimnirsson -> Mortars, Howitzers as part of another unit (1/18/2012 11:04:38 PM)

Hi folks,

I thought that because I have in TOAW3 some units that include 'arty-like' weapons as part of their 'counter-content' (mortars, howitzers etc.) which are also given a certain range for their attacks that I could use these units for bombardment on non-adjacent units. I asked two players here on the forum and it seems that this is not the case and bombardment (=long range attacks) is only possible for units that are 'real' artillery units (= marked as such).
That at least solves the problem that I never could use them the way I thought they would work. I always got this red circle apparently saying 'not allowed'. But then I wonder why is this weapon type available in the unit report screen? Why do I have to know that a mortar crew as part of a tank unit can attack up to 3 hexes...when I never can actually use that in the game? Could I split such a unit so to actually form an artillery unit with the howitzers, mortars etc. and then use them for long range attacks? If that doesn't work I really see no sense in this specific information, which is even more confusing because the info is given in game terms (3 hexes range)...

Any opinion from you vets out there is very much appreciated [:)]

Grim



r6kunz -> RE: Mortars, Howitzers as part of another unit (1/19/2012 1:01:31 AM)

Hello Grim
Here is my take- artillery units that are organic to the maneuver unit (mortars and direct support artillery) are often included in the unit counter and is part of the units aggregate firepower. Typical fire missions will be within a hex of the maneuver unit (fire called in by forward observers), and the firing units range represents the fact the firing units are some distance behind the maneuver unit.

A designer could certainly have the firing units as separate counters with artillery icons, but this would double or triple the number and increase the micromanagement.

As a compromise designers often include the organic and dedicated artillery in the maneuver unit inventory, and the use a separate artillery unit/icon for general support artillery.

Cheers







Erik2 -> RE: Mortars, Howitzers as part of another unit (1/19/2012 7:55:40 AM)

You can also put organic ranged equipment in the HQ unit, it will work as a artillery unit. I usually do this with short-ranged equipment like mortars.
The map scale also comes into play, I would assign ranged weapons diffferent in a 1km/hex scenario vs a 50km/hex.



Grimnirsson -> RE: Mortars, Howitzers as part of another unit (1/19/2012 9:56:02 AM)

Ok, that means the info that mortars can fire up to three hexes away is mentioned because that's the parameter the game uses for this unit/weapon type when it is used in the 'default mode' as a standalone unit. If a designer decides to incorporate it into another unit that has no long range attack abilities (e.g. it has been part of the unit in question historically) this main unit doesn't get any ranged attack abilities despite of the mortars being part of their troops, the firepower is calculated into the attack on adjacent hexes only - but the info about the long range attack of mortars is automatically taken from the game data base and that's what the unit report will show. Do I have this right?



sPzAbt653 -> RE: Mortars, Howitzers as part of another unit (1/19/2012 10:06:38 AM)

or ... the equipment may have a range, but the unit icon does not.



Oberst_Klink -> RE: Mortars, Howitzers as part of another unit (1/19/2012 12:47:40 PM)

... therefore I LOVE scenarios that allow the combined arms character of the game -> see 'State Farm 79' or '48PZK'... and if anybody knows about the whereabouts of Joao Lima and Mark Pustovrh, aka GreenDestiny, drop me a line. I want to revise and update another great Eastern Front game that emphasizes on combined arms and some mobile action in the Steppes! A Gallop No More - Kharkov '43 has such a great potential. Pls, help!



USXpat -> RE: Mortars, Howitzers as part of another unit (1/21/2012 10:12:55 PM)

Yes - you got it now.  Artillery is given a range in kilometers in the equipment database and that's locked in.   Scenarios can be modeled to 1 km, and are typically at least 2.5 to 50 km per hex. 



Anchovy -> RE: Mortars, Howitzers as part of another unit (2/10/2012 10:43:36 PM)

My takes ...

1. Equipments with ranged attack capabilities -- artillery and helicopters types -- included in maneuver units' (e.g., infantry, armor, cavalry, etc.) equipment list do not provide ranged attacks. Exception: There is a unit type icon that is 'infantry-artillery' (X with dot in the middle) that allows ranged attack if artillery type equipments are included in its equipment list.

2. Artillery type equipments in units with artillery/mortar/rocket launcher/HQ icons do provide ranged attacks. HQ can even include helicopters in its equipment list.



shunwick -> RE: Mortars, Howitzers as part of another unit (2/11/2012 11:16:00 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anchovy

There is a unit type icon that is 'infantry-artillery' (X with dot in the middle) that allows ranged attack if artillery type equipments are included in its equipment list.



Please note though:- That particular icon is very difficult to distinguish from an ordinary infantry symbol and is easily confused. Personally, whenever I find a scenario that uses it, I change it to either mortar or artillery depending on which is more suitable.

Best wishes,
Steve



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