v 2.0 TOO SLUGGISH! (Full Version)

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EricLarsen -> v 2.0 TOO SLUGGISH! (11/14/2002 5:01:51 AM)

I have just finished testing out the new version 2.0 upgrade and I have actually timed out several operations that now take far longer than ever before. Why is it that whenever a game company puts out a 2.0 version it runs as slow as molasses?

Another very bad thing I noticed was that it was released on a Friday before a major weekend - Veteran's Day. I remember one of Talonsoft's dumbest mistakes was to rush out patches on a Friday (especially before major weekends) because it had to be out for the weekend with the result of a half-baked problematic patch going out before it was properly tested. Geez here's Matrix and 2by3 making the same dumb mistake with version 2.0. While I appreciate the sentiment of trying to get something out to us before a major weekend so we can enjoy the new fixes, I don't appreciate downloading yet another 2-steps-forward--one-step-backwards patch that contains new bugs and new problems. I would have hoped that with the mess 1.30 caused you people would have learned better, but I guess you need to be reminded constantly not to rush out half-baked patches that leave us players with mixed feelings on the efficacy of the patch. Patches do not have to be released on Fridays, they can be released any work day and if you wait and release properly tested patches we'll be a happier set of campers.

The saved game function absolutely stinks now! It takes 1 minute and 15 seconds (timed it with a watch several times) to pull up the stinking saved game menu when it used to be a quick almost instantaneous event. While I can understand improving the PBEM security and having the program automatically compress the files to improve security and allow the player to bypass the zip-unzip process, I do not buy this excuse for saving games against the AI. We don't need no stinking security or compression for saving simple games against the AI, or even head-to-head on the same computer. Please fix this so that saving these kinds of simple games is the same quick event it used to be.

I also timed with a watch the function for pulling up a game from the main game selection menu and it now takes a whopping 45 seconds when it was virtually instantaneous!

The function to select a saved game from the saved game screen now takes 40 seconds to pull up instead of being instantaneous.

Even the game loading up now takes longer. When I escape out of the main video I notice it now takes longer than before for the game to finish loading.

I even went to the trouble of defragging my harddrive before doing these timing tests and I found that there was no real improvement due to the defrag process, and I didn't really expect it to since I defragged a month ago to speed up game play.

I'd give version 2.0 a grade of "D". While there are many good new fixes, and a few dubious ones, there are too many new truly aggravating problems like that erroneous "ships arriving in theater" message that comes up every turn regardless of whether ships really did arrive and the way the game bogs down now in several functions that it never did before. Please do not rush out patches to placate us only to further irritate us in the long run. Now I wonder when 2.01 comes out to fix some of the new annoying bugs that have cropped up in 2.0?????:(
Eric Larsen



CommC -> (11/14/2002 10:18:46 AM)

As mentioned in some of the other posts on the bug reports forum, the save game (and load presumably) speed is greatly increased in 2.0 if you delete all the old 1.4 save game files from the save folder.



Adam Parker -> (11/14/2002 11:48:30 AM)

Yes, I didn't upgrade to 1.4 so no problems to report - saves and loads with 2.0 really are normal to me.

Eric, I'd suggest a re-load and re-application of your saved 2.0 patch. However, I've noted doing it this way (as when my .exe went walking) now means that True Update wants to re-download the entire 2.0 patch though it's already in play!

I don't know how I'm going to get around this when 2.1 comes out but that's life on a computer and there'll be a way. :rolleyes:



pasternakski -> (11/14/2002 11:57:35 AM)

I have seen no slowdown since upgrading to 2.0 and note nothing that would indicate this to have been a "rush job."



WW2'er -> (11/14/2002 10:16:40 PM)

Geez Eric, you should know by now that Matrix wouldn't "rush" a patch just to have it out before a holiday weekend. The patch is very good and very stable. I'm sorry it has slowed your gameplay down so much, but it appears you are the exception not the rule.

The two biggest things I have heard about that need to be fixed are the "Ships Arriving" message and that Beaufighters are not fighter/bombers but LevelBombers. I'm sure both will be straightened out in time.



EricLarsen -> Not an option yet (11/14/2002 11:01:41 PM)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by CommC
[B]As mentioned in some of the other posts on the bug reports forum, the save game (and load presumably) speed is greatly increased in 2.0 if you delete all the old 1.4 save game files from the save folder. [/B]

CommC,
Since I'm still finishing an old 1.4 game I have no intention of deleting my old 1.4 saves at this time. There are a couple of old saves of the game at different points so I can look at things the way they were after I'm done with my current game. I'm to 12/1/43 in my current game and only have about 30 more turns to go to finish an entire 610-turn campaign.

There certainly was no warning or advisory by the UV team to watch out for this particular problem either. It sure would have been nice if they had known of this problem to give us a heads up on it. At least knowing that after I'm done with my game I can delete my old 1.40 saves and then saving should get back to normal. I sure hope I can just delete the old files without having to download that patch again. But it is very irritating to have to wait 1 minute 15 seconds each and everytime I want to save just to get the saved game screen up.
Eric Larsen



EricLarsen -> Rush Job (11/14/2002 11:08:58 PM)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by WW2'er
[B]Geez Eric, you should know by now that Matrix wouldn't "rush" a patch just to have it out before a holiday weekend. The patch is very good and very stable. I'm sorry it has slowed your gameplay down so much, but it appears you are the exception not the rule.

The two biggest things I have heard about that need to be fixed are the "Ships Arriving" message and that Beaufighters are not fighter/bombers but LevelBombers. I'm sure both will be straightened out in time. [/B]

WW2'er,
Maybe you'd better go back and check the time stamp on the main forum message that alerted us to the patch being available. Sure enough it was a Friday before the Veteran's Day Weekend! If you do some checking you will find all the patches for UV were released on a Friday as if it's some sabbath release date for patches. Now as to that little new snafu with the false "ships arriving in theater" message, that is a sure indication that the job was rushed. I find it inexcusable that the whole testing team missed such a blatantly obvious new bug that players caught immediately. Thankfully it is harmless, but did they miss something else new that isn't so harmless?

I may be the first and most vocal player to be hampered by the long save times and the long waits for getting into the game, but I doubt I'm the only player that wants to finish up a game started in 1.40. The UV team still could have issued a warning about this problem and at least saved some of us some grief.
Eric Larsen



WW2'er -> (11/15/2002 1:05:12 AM)

Eric,

I never said they didn't release it before the holiday weekend, just that they wouldn't rush it out the door to do so.

If the ships arriving bug is harmless why are you squeeking so much about it?

Sure, there will be other bugs. There always will be bugs in large amounts of very complicated code. GET OVER IT!

Sorry, man, I'm not trying to pick a fight here, but you just seem to be whining to me.



David Heath -> (11/15/2002 1:59:29 AM)

Hi Everyone

Eric we do care about your issues but you are totally off base with telling us we rushed the patch out the door. We do not care what Talonsoft or any other company does. We released it because we felt it was done. You when post things that are not based in facts you mislead everyone. Face it Eric you have no clue as to when or how long we be testing this patch or any other patch for that manner. Please do not guess what we are doing lets leave that to us.

Eric we did fix the Ship Arriving bug and it is harmless but we somehow let it get back into the game. That is our bad and it will be addressed in the next patch. Guys, Eric has every right to be upset it because this should not have happend.

My main issue I want to get across here to Eric and everyone else is that we are always trying to make the game better and more enjoyable. Yes we sometimes make mistakes but we always try to fix them and we are always willing to listen to the gamers.



David Heath -> (11/15/2002 2:00:18 AM)

Hello Guys

All of the programmers and myself had a conference call and went over in details the problems or items we are not happy with. After a few hours I feel we got a good game plan and we should address a lot of the issues as far as PBEM Security, Game Speed, Restarting the Game, the replay and Naval Combat and a few other points.

I am NOT going into details yet and these are not promises but we should be able to address everything and we are putting a lot of effort behind it.

David



Yamamoto -> (11/15/2002 2:54:53 AM)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by David Heath
[B]Hello Guys

All of the programmers and myself had a conference call and went over in details the problems or items we are not happy with. After a few hours I feel we got a good game plan and we should be address a lot of the issues as far as PBEM Security, Game Speed, Restarting the Game, the replay and Naval Combat and a few other points.

I am NOT going into details yet and these are not promises we be able to address everything and we are putting a lot of effort behind it.

David [/B][/QUOTE]

You posted this in at least three threads but it makes me so happy to see that these things are being looked at that I have to say "Thank You" in each of the threads you posted it to.

Yamamoto



CommC -> (11/15/2002 10:34:12 AM)

Eric,
One idea that has occured to me for those still playing 1.4 games: just move all the old 1.4 save files into another directory (you could call it old saves or something like that). Then put only the 1.4 most recent save you are most interested in in your save game UV folder. Then open it in 2.0 and immediately resave it as a 2.0 file. Then move the old 1.4 save out of the save game directory to your archive.

Repeat this procedure for all your old 1.4 games.

This should allow you to continue your 1.4 games with having to endure the slowdown.



XPav -> (11/15/2002 11:40:44 AM)

Copy the entire UV folder and make a 1.4 version and 2.0 version.

Yes that eats disk space and violates my principles too.



Sonny -> (11/15/2002 9:31:03 PM)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by XPav
[B]Copy the entire UV folder and make a 1.4 version and 2.0 version.

Yes that eats disk space and violates my principles too. [/B][/QUOTE]

You got principles?:eek: :D



EricLarsen -> Thanks!!!!!!!! (11/15/2002 10:49:20 PM)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by David Heath
[B]Eric we do care about your issues but you are totally off base with telling us we rushed the patch out the door. We do not care what Talonsoft or any other company does. We released it because we felt it was done. You when post things that are not based in facts you mislead everyone. Face it Eric you have no clue as to when or how long we be testing this patch or any other patch for that manner. Please do not guess what we are doing lets leave that to us.

Eric we did fix the Ship Arriving bug and it is harmless but we somehow let it get back into the game. That is our bad and it will be addressed in the next patch. Guys, Eric has every right to be upset it because this should not have happend.

My main issue I want to get across here to Eric and everyone else is that we are always trying to make the game better and more enjoyable. Yes we sometimes make mistakes but we always try to fix them and we are always willing to listen to the gamers. [/B]

Dave,
Thanks for understanding why I'm rather dismayed about this latest 2.0 patch and the snafus encountered. I know you've been working on the 2.0 patch a while, since 1.40 came out a few months ago. I was extremely peeved that my old saved games hung me up for so long and there was no warning put out in the 2.0 update sheet about this. I'm not sure if you knew or not because it's unlikely the testers would have used old saved games in 2.0 when the SOP would be to start new games (something to add to the testing SOP in the future??) to test a new version. But I would hope that you'll edit that document to give players a warning about lengthened save times when trying to play old saved games, or better yet to warn players to wait until after they finish any old saved games before applying the patch and to delete all the old saved games before applying the patch.

While I know you don't want to make the same mistakes Talonsoft made, putting out patches only on Fridays makes me suspicious. I'd love to see a patch put out on a Wednesday or something once just so I don't keep wondering if there's some unwritten 11th commandment that "Thou shalt only dispense program updates on the update Sabbath of Friday".:eek:

I also hope you understand if I didn't care about this game I wouldn't complain so vigorously. My aim is to get a better product and if that means kicking and screaming and crying the sky's falling in so be it.

I do like the game, but honestly I'm starting to get a little bored with the limited scenario selection and limited strategic options presented and wish that the game had a decent editor so I could make up scenarios that I like to play. Right now I'm contemplating taking scenario 19 and editing the turns to 975 (I hope that's possible) and bumping up the ship committment to 20,000 for both sides so that I can then start playing the game head-to-head for about 475 turns to get me to a point where I've evacuated Port Moresby as the Allies and let the Japs build up along New Guinea through Guadalcanal for over a year before the Allies counterattack. That would have been the logical extension of the scenario premise that Germany was romping through Europe and forcing the Allies to committ more to the Europe First strategy before committing forces to the pacific theater. That way both sides would be built up nicely and even against the AI a player could have fun playing either side and the AI would be more competitive. But that's probably 2 months or more of work before I could ever get to the fun part. Please don't release games without fully functioning editors as it truly limits the playing life of the game.

I know you guys are trying hard to bring us good games and that we all make mistakes. Keep up the good work and keep your ears and eyes tuned to your forums so you know what we like and dislike.:D (I sure wish one of you UV teamers would answer my post about "Dumb AI Base Defense")
Eric Larsen



XPav -> (11/16/2002 4:04:34 AM)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Sonny
[B]

You got principles?:eek: :D [/B][/QUOTE]

Violates my programmer principles which is that you should never have to carry around an old version that is supposed to be fully compatible.



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