Division display change (Full Version)

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Update -> Division display change (2/8/2012 12:34:15 PM)

Long time no post [:D]

Here is a suggestion that Tail Gunners "Panzer Vorwärts"-post brought to my mind again.

Right now the Division, when clicked open, shows huge numbers of different INDIVIDUAL equiptments. It is quite chaotic to try to figure out and seems that German side runs out of room for their units anyway.
Divisions strenght, after all, is not the sum of individual units but the sum of the subunits.

So, I propose that the display and listing of TOE would be changed (both for WITE and the follow on WITW and so on) as follows:

After opening the DIVISION listing there is list of all the subunits and the actual individual units (as would belong for the opened subunit) are seen when the subunit is opened. Here is an example as German 1st Infanterie Division (22.06.1941):

When opened it would list:
1 Inf. Regiment
22 Inf. Regiment
43 Inf. Regiment
1 Artillery Regiment
1 Panzerjager-Abt
1 Aufklärungs-Abt
1 Pionier Battalion
1 Supply (under whatever you want to lump the noncombat supply function)

When you click the subunit For example 1 Panzerjager-Abt it shows the individual units:
36xPAK 37
18x LMG 34

This would open up new avenues for future development of the game along with accurate TOE listings.
If it would be possible to include I can post more thoughts of the various applications that can be included due to this change. (role of division commander, beneficial combat modifiers for better recon, commitment of troops from Division reserves, subdeployment stands within division for defence, advance and attack etc.)



Schmart -> RE: Division display change (2/8/2012 8:25:25 PM)

Right, now I challenge you to do this for the Soviet side...

It's hard enough to track Russian Divisions, let alone brigades and regiments. And you'll drive yourself nuts trying to track battalions. With duplicate numbers and sub-units, even the Russians didn't always know what was going on in some cases!

As essentially what you are suggesting is a full 1939-1945 european theater OOB down to company level, I'd say the cost-benifit ratio will be prohibitively expensive in terms of time.



Update -> RE: Division display change (2/9/2012 6:33:18 AM)

Schmart, you are right about exact numbering of Soviet units. The Axis and Western Allied are pretty much copy paste stuff, well documented.
BUT, (and such a lovely one it is [:D]) we do know the composition of the divisions.
For example: 1941 Rifle Division

3x Rifle regiments
2x Artillery regiments
1x Reconnaissance battalion
1x Antitank battalion
1x Antiaircraft battalion
1x Sapper battalion
1x Tank battalion
Supply etc. unit

Even though we do not have the exact numbering it doesn't matter, we can assign numbers based on availability (no duplicates).
That is basicly what is happening already with the Soviet ability to create new units. They do not follow any historical facts, like right now you can take any three divisions and create Infantry Corps regardless which were historically used. Same with the Guard status, total freedom from history.
BTW, in that regard the "Axis Fanboys" have somewhat of a point when they complain the strict scripting of Axis units.
Summa summarum, yes it takes some work but not any major problems. The benefits are huge for the whole coming series of War in the Europe-games. (No idea if that is the actual title or not!)



Schmart -> RE: Division display change (2/9/2012 5:30:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pertti
The Axis and Western Allied are pretty much copy paste stuff, well documented.


In some instances yes, but even the British Army is often difficult to sort out, given the number of battalions that they swapped between brigades/divisions.

quote:

The benefits are huge for the whole coming series of War in the Europe-games. (No idea if that is the actual title or not!)


What are the benifits? Other than a nice little bit of chrome, I don't see ayone other than the handful of TOE/OOB nerds (like you and me [;)] ) really caring. Even being a TOE/OOB nerd myself, with a game at the scale of WitE, I rarely pay much attention to individual divisions. I track unit TOE %, and maybe look at unit rifle squad or tank numbers. That's it. I really don't have time to fuss around and worry about how many AT guns the 578th Anti-Tank Battalion of the 408th Rifle Division has. I want to play the game. If I want to sit and stare at beautiful TOE/OOB breakdowns, I have my books for that [:)]. For a smaller scale game it would make more sense to include what you are suggesting. But for a game of this scale, it really dosen't matter. Unit CV, MPs, Morale, and supply are really the only things the majority of players care about.



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