Japanese ASW effectiveness (Full Version)

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Massattack -> Japanese ASW effectiveness (11/16/2002 7:30:04 PM)

I am playing Operation MO May-Jul42 as allies v the AI, with submarines under human control. I have lost quite a few (8 or 9) in my attempts to blockade Jap controlled Gili-Gili. Most of my subs have been patrolling GG itself or the deep water hex due East of it, which is a good choke point to try and pick off wounded capital ships returning from attacks on PM. I have had some success with sub attacks doing this but at quite a cost as you can see above. It seems that attacks on CA's or BB's stand a good chance of being badly damaged or sunk by the escorts, regardless of shallow or deep water, though I am sure the game makes shallow water more dangerous for the sub. This is probably realistic and I do not have enough knowledge or gameplay in UV to question these outcomes. What does arouse my curiosity and puts a little question mark into my mind is the games display of these outcomes. I get either of two animations. A) escorts search for sub, followed by a few sonar ping noises, and thats it , or B) Escorts attack with type X depth charges. In every single (I think!) case of the second animation, the depth charges are successful in damaging or destroying the sub. Surely the majority of depth charge attacks on subs were not this successful. Does the game engine simulate unsuccessful DC attacks in the search only animation? or is Jap ASW still too effective? I am just wondering about what other players have found with this. (I am playing with patched V2.0 and the subs are a mix of S class and some larger types (Tambor?))

Regards

Massattack

NB The other feature I thought a little questionable was one of my subs dukeing it out on the surface with an armed Transport risking damage rather than crashdiving when the transport returned fire, and finishing it off with a torp. I know others have posted about this problem as well.




BK6583 -> IJN ASW (11/18/2002 10:40:26 PM)

I asked this same question in another post. With 2.0 loaded I lost 5 Allied subs in one turn (all in deep water) as well as two more damaged when several IJN destroyer TFs (enroute to PM) passed through where my subs were stationed. Suffice to say I withdrew what was left back to sit in ports.




SamRo -> hummm... (11/19/2002 9:25:10 PM)

Seems to work ok for me, I am Japan on a head to head game I regularly detect US sub's on the ?surface? with planes Val's & Emily’s, all so short range ASW aircraft that are ship based detect them on occasion, I have lost a PG to a sub [big fleet sub not s-37 type.] in the slot that I had not detected prior to it's attack & although some of the PC in the same TF attempted to attack it [1 lunched 2 depth charge attacks none hitting.], I have had a 2000 ton AP damaged badly [1 torp hit], 30 miles north west of shorthand again undetected prior to strike this time the PC in the group failed to make a counter attack.. A mine laying group in iron bottom sound was attack buy a fleet sub & one of the plane carrying mine layers was damaged again 1 torp hit, this time one of the DD escorts attack the sub it had been undetected up till it's attack, 4 Depth charge attacks were made buy 2 DD's & 1 hit was scored... My opponent reported the sub as only taking slight damage...
2 instances of failed attacks both buy fleet sub's around Bougainville, 1 against 2 Tankers anchored unloading gas @ Buka Island, subs made too attacks nether were successful... & escorts did not pick the subs up...
the other was over the "New Britain Trench" against a Transport TF specifically against the IJN Haguro again no hit's & the escorts did not attack bad weather may have played a part on this one! on both occasions the position of the subs was know to me...
Finally a Fast transport TF in Iron Bottom sound was attack buy an S-37 class sub to torps sank an APD but one of the DD escorts made to depth charge attacks scoring 2 hits.... BANG no more sub..

in contrast I have lost 1 sub to a Bombardment TF's escorts in iron bottom sound & 1 too an SBD about 150 West of lunga on Scout mission im told not even ASW!!!........ they have done a lot of damage even putting to torps into a CL!!!

I think it's all about right...

An interesting foot note that in the hands of a human player the seas around New Caledonia become too dangerous to operate IJN subs!! Air plains every where!!!!

the other was over the "New Britian Trench" against a Transport TF spicificly against the IJN Haguro again no hit's & the escorts did not attack bad weather may have played a part on this one! on both ocations the position of the subs was know to me...
Finaly a Fast transport TF in Iorn Bottom sound was attack buy an S-37 class sub to torps sank an APD but one of the DD escorts made to depth charge attacks scoreing 2 hits.... BANG no more sub..

in contrast I have lost 1 sub to a Bonbardment TF's escorts in iron bottom sound & one 2 an SBD about 150 West of lunga........

I think it's all about right...:D :D :D




SamRo -> (11/19/2002 9:26:40 PM)

opps kinda did something wired there!!!




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