RE: Community Request - Customized Designs (Full Version)

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jlevans -> RE: Community Request - Customized Designs (3/13/2012 9:45:40 PM)

I understand. It takes a lot of tweaking to get it right. I've had to do my fair share of it. [:(]

What I was referring to were designs with 1 Fusion Reactor and 8 Assault Blasters along with engines, shields, etc.. I looked at the designs with all technology researched which should maximize the output of the reactor.



Falokis -> RE: Community Request - Customized Designs (3/13/2012 10:02:58 PM)

I understand that strong mining stations hurt a bit, but all my test runs have been with full AI and me not doing anything. Money is tight, but never a problem. I think keeping vital resources flowing works out better.

As far as the reactor power, I agree on the earlier frigates. They are meant to swarm enemies and prevent them from getting away. They often have hiccups in the power which causes their hyperblock to go down and thus giving the enemy a chance to get away. This is only a problem on one design and it is corrected in later designs. I was focusing on getting everything I wanted into a certain size due to it being a ship I expected out early in the game.

To the Devs: I uploaded a picture to give you an idea of what my problem is currently. It's a picture of the build rates and ratios done by the AI. It's 50% escorts and 50% frigates with nothing else being built. Anything else on the list were ships the AI found and not built. This is with my destroyer ratio supposed to be 35%

[image]http://img864.imageshack.us/img864/1224/20120313151701.jpg[/image]



Falokis -> RE: Community Request - Customized Designs (3/13/2012 10:33:25 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlevans

I understand. It takes a lot of tweaking to get it right. I've had to do my fair share of it. [:(]

What I was referring to were designs with 1 Fusion Reactor and 8 Assault Blasters along with engines, shields, etc.. I looked at the designs with all technology researched which should maximize the output of the reactor.
Oh. I see what you are talking about. You mean the destroyers. I don't know how I missed that. I must not have paid attention when I edited from my modded version to general use. Going from Novacore to regular reactors leaves a lot to be desired. I'll re-up once I edit that.



jlevans -> RE: Community Request - Customized Designs (3/13/2012 10:35:16 PM)

quote:

As far as the reactor power, I agree on the earlier frigates. They are meant to swarm enemies and prevent them from getting away. They often have hiccups in the power which causes their hyperblock to go down and thus giving the enemy a chance to get away. This is only a problem on one design and it is corrected in later designs. I was focusing on getting everything I wanted into a certain size due to it being a ship I expected out early in the game.


Interesting strategy. I must admit I've never underpowered a ship and then tested how much that hurt vs. the advantage of all that extra reactor space for weapons! [:D]



Falokis -> RE: Community Request - Customized Designs (3/14/2012 12:57:16 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jlevans

quote:

As far as the reactor power, I agree on the earlier frigates. They are meant to swarm enemies and prevent them from getting away. They often have hiccups in the power which causes their hyperblock to go down and thus giving the enemy a chance to get away. This is only a problem on one design and it is corrected in later designs. I was focusing on getting everything I wanted into a certain size due to it being a ship I expected out early in the game.


Interesting strategy. I must admit I've never underpowered a ship and then tested how much that hurt vs. the advantage of all that extra reactor space for weapons! [:D]
Okay. Here is the final, final version. I added some power to the destroyers due to them probably running short in early stages. Frigates, I left alone. They didn't seem to be hurt as far as I could tell. I'm done with humans unless I get anymore good feedback.

By the way, has anyone had the same problem I have above with heavy ships not being made or am I just special?



tjhkkr -> RE: Community Request - Customized Designs (3/16/2012 12:59:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sithuk

Erik: Dhayut ship designs attached. I've only created ships up to around T4 ot T5 as the game I have sourced my designs from was won by that point.

Erik: it would be useful when we sort by sub-role in the ship design screen to secondary sort by the last selected sort. For example, if I sort by name then sort by sub-role, it would be good if the designs were sorted by name within each sub-role.

WARNING TO ALL: Remember to select ALL of your designs before clicking "Save selected designs" at the top. Otherwise you'll only save the last selected ship design.

ehsumrell / tjhkkr / data: which race ship designs are you preparing and when will you have them uploaded?


Yes, I am: Imperial/Republic/Rebellion/Corellian/CIS



jlevans -> RE: Community Request - Customized Designs (3/16/2012 1:24:45 PM)

Here's my Boskara design file, v3.

This one was developed by doing an entire tech tree play through to get the 'Date Created' property in the proper sequence. While the AI still doesn't really accurately determine which buildable designs are the most advanced, I'm hoping the next patch will fix that problem, along with the Pirates being OP when using OD files.



Falokis -> RE: Community Request - Customized Designs (3/17/2012 1:19:58 AM)

Ok. I have a few requested adjustments for the humans, so I did it. I basically cleaned up designs and made the ship size more in line with the tech age. I also added all the civilian ships. After doing that, I got pretty good at working threw ship building in a logical order. That lead me to go ahead and design Gizurean and Sluken ships.

The zip file contains human, Gizurean, and Sluken ships. I hope you enjoy. If there is anymore feedback; post here or PM me.



Sithuk -> RE: Community Request - Customized Designs (3/17/2012 12:08:12 PM)

jlevans/Falokis: thank you guys, excellent work. I've looked through all your shipsets and feel I have learnt quite a bit already. I'll have to go through my Dhayuts designs and revise them again. Those starbases are looking intimidating, it'll be interesting to see how the AI copes with the extra maintenance costs. Taking down AI bases is going to be harder.

I think as long as the maintenance costs on the hardened mining stations aren't execessive it should ease some of the irritation from the single ship raids on remote mining stations. These new hardened stations which you've given destroyer class weapons and shielding should be able to fight them off.

Giving the AI much larger capacity passenger ships is what I do in my ship designs too. I find emmigration starts to become relevant and new worlds get up to pop sooner. (Now if only the AI would set tax to zero until they reached a given threshold I'd be a happy player. I'm currently manually setting all tax to zero to bolster growth but I know the AI players aren't so it seems an exploit of sorts - one for Erik to optimise?).

I play with max research costs so I am curious to find out how your mixed weapons designs will fare. I tend to have to specialist on one weapon type because the research costs are simply too great to do otherwise. I'm not sure how the AI will perform with your mixed weapons designs in a max tech cost game in comparison to a race who selects one weapon type and focusses.

Another four or five race design sets and we should have enough for a game.

Erik: How close is the next Beta? I wish to hold off running a playtest until the new code to have the AI design the ships which are missing from the custom sets, e.g. if a higher tech component is researched I'd want that in play right away rather than have to wait for all 5 or 6 techs to be researched to allow the next custom design to become available.



Falokis -> RE: Community Request - Customized Designs (3/17/2012 10:13:42 PM)


quote:

I play with max research costs so I am curious to find out how your mixed weapons designs will fare. I tend to have to specialist on one weapon type because the research costs are simply too great to do otherwise. I'm not sure how the AI will perform with your mixed weapons designs in a max tech cost game in comparison to a race who selects one weapon type and focusses.
On each of my ship and base sets, the races only use one shield, engine, hyperdrive, beam/phaser, and missle/torpedo. I even avoided things that required multiple research paths to obtain. I tried to simplify the designs because I thought the AI was supposed to research only what it needed to research to build these ships. If that was the idea, it's not working. Hopefully they will fix that next beta patch.

I would also be happy with pre-made templates for research order to help the AI. I already queue up all my research when I play, so the mechanic is there. I'm sure the Devs could do this easy if the AI is too difficult to fix.



jlevans -> RE: Community Request - Customized Designs (3/17/2012 11:18:08 PM)

I haven't yet found the magic elixer either in designing the OD file to get a more directed research path... I too am hoping the next patch fixes this as right now, the AI plays better using it's own designs than using the OD.

I also just watched my race design build only escort and frigate military ships the whole game even though the other size ships were available. I seem to remember seeing this reported recently, although this is the first time I've personally seen it.



Shadow Tiger -> RE: Community Request - Customized Designs (3/17/2012 11:29:39 PM)

I'm playing around with the designs as I plan out the mighty Teeken armada, and something occurred to me.

What about Death Rays?
What about those nasty area effect equivalents?

Unless you create a design for them with this system the computer will never use them (if found). And if you do create a design, how would you set it up for the AI to use? Create two designs at every viable tech level, one normal and one with Ancient Tech?



jlevans -> RE: Community Request - Customized Designs (3/18/2012 12:32:35 AM)

I believe it is Elliot's intention to add a capabilty for the AI to interpolate between designs, so if a DeathRay is discovered, the AI will create one, assuming there is enough of a gap in OD designs to trigger such a design. We'll have to see how that will work after the next patch.



Sithuk -> RE: Community Request - Customized Designs (3/18/2012 12:18:47 PM)

I've finished re-working my earlier Dhayut shipset. File attached. I've only gone up to ship size 500, Titan beams, hydrogen reactors. I've typically won the game by then (I max tech costs so slow research). I'll expand further as time allows. For now its ready for your feedback.

I've designed bases to use torps and ships to lasers. The torp tech I research once I get to shatterforce lasers so the early bases use maxos/shatterforce until the torps come online.

State military transitions to hydrogren. Private stays on caslon to ease fuel availability.

The ship design AI doesn't seem to obsolete old designs. I have to manually tell it when a design has become obsolete due to a new tech. Am I missing something?

Why does the shipset AI keep creating Carrier, Capital and Re-supply designs even though I have created optimised designs. Doesn't happen with any other design class.



jpwrunyan -> RE: Community Request - Customized Designs (3/19/2012 10:24:18 AM)

So correct me if I am wrong, but the devs are going to incorporate the best of these designs into the default of the next official release, right?



ehsumrell1 -> RE: Community Request - Customized Designs (3/19/2012 11:55:46 AM)

That's the idea JP! [:)]



Shark7 -> RE: Community Request - Customized Designs (3/19/2012 7:13:22 PM)

What I'd also like to see is an 'exchange' where we can trade designs amongst ourselves. After all, I can design ships for each race myself, but even so, I have a certain style and they are all going to be similar (due to my style). Now if there is a central place where I can DL other peoples designs for each race, then we can get some really diverse designs in the game.



tjhkkr -> RE: Community Request - Customized Designs (3/19/2012 8:53:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7
What I'd also like to see is an 'exchange' where we can trade designs amongst ourselves. After all, I can design ships for each race myself, but even so, I have a certain style and they are all going to be similar (due to my style). Now if there is a central place where I can DL other peoples designs for each race, then we can get some really diverse designs in the game.


That would be fun...



feelotraveller -> RE: Community Request - Customized Designs (3/20/2012 3:08:23 AM)

Yeah, 'design sets'?

I will do mine when I start playing again.  Can't face it right now with all the ersatz spaceport retrofitting I was getting.  Wouldn't say I'm holding my breath but I do hope this gets fixed in a patch soon.



Shadow Tiger -> RE: Community Request - Customized Designs (3/20/2012 6:47:18 AM)

A bit frustrated at the moment, after spending some time on Teekan designs. Apparently if you get your whole set made for a specific role it's fine. But if you go back and make changes out of order then the most recently modified design becomes the latest. I just discovered this after going into a starting tech game to fix hab modules, then going back to a tech lvl 7 game to test more.

The starting mining bases were not the highest tech this time. Instead I had my starting design for mining stations, and my 4th (of 8) for the gas mining station. This is getting ridiculous! I'm hoping that going back and edit/saving each design in order then exporting to the design file will fix this. Will have to test it later.



hewwo -> RE: Community Request - Customized Designs (3/20/2012 3:19:09 PM)

Bugs! I'm holding off on playing till they get fixed [:)]



Erik Rutins -> RE: Community Request - Customized Designs (3/20/2012 9:21:11 PM)

Hi everyone,

The new v1.07.13 Public Beta update is now available, which includes some additional improvements to the new design functionality based on your feedback.

Regards,

- Erik



ASHBERY76 -> RE: Community Request - Customized Designs (3/20/2012 9:45:00 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Shadow Tiger

I'm playing around with the designs as I plan out the mighty Teeken armada, and something occurred to me.

What about Death Rays?
What about those nasty area effect equivalents?

Unless you create a design for them with this system the computer will never use them (if found). And if you do create a design, how would you set it up for the AI to use? Create two designs at every viable tech level, one normal and one with Ancient Tech?



Please answer this!!!!!! Does the A.I use it owns designs with superweapons when they find them ingame.



WiZz -> RE: Community Request - Customized Designs (3/20/2012 10:11:29 PM)

I suppose - no.



onomastikon -> RE: Community Request - Customized Designs (3/22/2012 10:29:16 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: onomastikon

Thank you very much for these excellent replies. I am not a master at this, so may I pose a follow-up question here?

- I don't understand how to take into account every possibility. I mean, in some games, I will first research "advanced missiles" with my race, but in another game the same race might first research "advanced rail guns". There are so many contingencies. What I mean is: For "tech level 2" (which to me seems to be an ellipsis for a general level of advancement), there are hundreds of valid possibilities, am I supposed to build and save them all?!? That seems nigh on impossible. Sorry I really don't get it.
- I am not sure the automatic control still actually understands "automatically upgrade" and "retrofit" correctly: Sometimes I do not see the ships retrofitting, sometimes I get the popup to suggest retrofitting but I am not told what will be retrofitted how, and I am still not sure how to implement subroles (e.g. one cruiser with stronger defense and more shields and scanning, one cruiser with anti-planet abilities, one cruiser with anti-fighter, one cruiser with strong beams, and one cruiser with long-range missiles). Am I missing something?

Thank you very, very much


Sorry I am slow on the uptake here and I believe my poor little questions have slipped the attention of the wise ones here. I'd like to do my part and contribute something, but I need some help here: Am I supposed to design a ship for every single contingency, that is, Destroyer_techlevel1_got_missiles_first, then Destroyer_techlevel1_got_railguns_first, then Destroyer_techlevel1_got_bigger_hulls_first -- etc. etc. for all the dozens of possibilities for tech level 1, THEN I make Destroyer_techlevel1_got_lasers_second, etc. etc., so that for each tech level I am designing a thousand ships or so per subrole? Is this what we are supposed to do?

thanks much



Sithuk -> RE: Community Request - Customized Designs (3/22/2012 10:32:13 PM)

Designing for every conceivable tech research order is one conceivable route.

I don't recommend trying that.

Instead, I've designed for my preferred route through the tech tree. The AI is supposedly going to use the ship designs to help choose its research path. Elliot continues to tweak the code.

quote:

ORIGINAL: onomastikon


quote:

ORIGINAL: onomastikon

Thank you very much for these excellent replies. I am not a master at this, so may I pose a follow-up question here?

- I don't understand how to take into account every possibility. I mean, in some games, I will first research "advanced missiles" with my race, but in another game the same race might first research "advanced rail guns". There are so many contingencies. What I mean is: For "tech level 2" (which to me seems to be an ellipsis for a general level of advancement), there are hundreds of valid possibilities, am I supposed to build and save them all?!? That seems nigh on impossible. Sorry I really don't get it.
- I am not sure the automatic control still actually understands "automatically upgrade" and "retrofit" correctly: Sometimes I do not see the ships retrofitting, sometimes I get the popup to suggest retrofitting but I am not told what will be retrofitted how, and I am still not sure how to implement subroles (e.g. one cruiser with stronger defense and more shields and scanning, one cruiser with anti-planet abilities, one cruiser with anti-fighter, one cruiser with strong beams, and one cruiser with long-range missiles). Am I missing something?

Thank you very, very much


Sorry I am slow on the uptake here and I believe my poor little questions have slipped the attention of the wise ones here. I'd like to do my part and contribute something, but I need some help here: Am I supposed to design a ship for every single contingency, that is, Destroyer_techlevel1_got_missiles_first, then Destroyer_techlevel1_got_railguns_first, then Destroyer_techlevel1_got_bigger_hulls_first -- etc. etc. for all the dozens of possibilities for tech level 1, THEN I make Destroyer_techlevel1_got_lasers_second, etc. etc., so that for each tech level I am designing a thousand ships or so per subrole? Is this what we are supposed to do?

thanks much




Litjan -> RE: Community Request - Customized Designs (3/23/2012 9:08:53 AM)

Sithuk is right - custom designing for every conceivable combination of "technology available" is practically impossible.

The biggest advantage to the AI with the custom designs right now is the starting designs. I find arming my initial mining stations and giving the first spaceports enough labs is changing the game in a big way.

The designs I encounter in the later game are "ok" - I think the AI would benefit more from making better strategical and tactical decisions than in improving the designs even more (although there is certainly room for improvement).




Sithuk -> RE: Community Request - Customized Designs (3/25/2012 12:53:11 PM)

Litjan: Good point on increasing the number of research labs on the starting spaceport. A better fix would be for Elliot to code in a number of starting research bases at the HW. The AI does fine for research labs later in the game. It is just the start that it suffers from.



Lihnit23 -> RE: Community Request - Customized Designs (4/1/2012 8:18:05 PM)

I evidently am doing something wrong.

I think I've followed all the instructions for creating and saving custom ships. I tried human freighters and the explorer, starting tech. However, they never load when I start a new game as the humans. If I manually load the file after the game starts, then the modified ships show, but by then it's too late if I'm supposed to start with my new ships.

I created a "designs" folder in my "x" theme folder in the "customization" folder. The file name is "human".

Help please.




Falokis -> RE: Community Request - Customized Designs (4/1/2012 9:21:46 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lihnit23

I evidently am doing something wrong.

I think I've followed all the instructions for creating and saving custom ships. I tried human freighters and the explorer, starting tech. However, they never load when I start a new game as the humans. If I manually load the file after the game starts, then the modified ships show, but by then it's too late if I'm supposed to start with my new ships.

I created a "designs" folder in my "x" theme folder in the "customization" folder. The file name is "human".

Help please.


It's still in beta, so it's a little quirky. Make up to level 2 or 3 designs and see if the load. You could look in the designs tab in game under the "view all designs" to see if they just got automatically obsoleted. That happens to me sometimes when my designs are better, but the AI obsoletes them. This will at least tell you if the are loading up.



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