Heavy Industry DOES Matter!! (Full Version)

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Baelfiin -> Heavy Industry DOES Matter!! (3/7/2012 12:42:59 AM)

Just as a heads up to all you Russkie ARM evaccers out there: You CAN run yourself out of supplies if you do not bring HI as well!

[image]local://upfiles/20920/F81FDF3A7A434446972F04C23FD60A49.jpg[/image]



Baelfiin -> RE: Heavy Industry DOES Matter!! (3/7/2012 12:51:27 AM)

More of me putting myself out of supply NOTE: Factories are correct, I did not understand the calculation.

[image]local://upfiles/20920/44D5B4FE9B3F4BC69CA431A01BCB5767.jpg[/image]



Helpless -> RE: Heavy Industry DOES Matter!! (3/7/2012 1:24:11 AM)

You consume ~ 32k supplies a turn just to feed them. Plus they burn 15K to build forts in mud, which is going to go up in clear.

Your army is too big for the industry you have. You may start to disband some units.



Flaviusx -> RE: Heavy Industry DOES Matter!! (3/7/2012 1:31:59 AM)

Or...you could just avoid spamming forts.

I took a look at our current game just for sake of comparison, Scott. Your army is consuming almost double the supply that mine does. WTF? It surely isn't twice as big.

Also, and this is odd, you produce virtually the same amount of supply. I have 193 HI versus your 189, but you should be getting a 130% multiplier since it is 1942.

I'm a ruthless disbander, btw. I throw away all the fat, excess HQs, airbases, useless SUs, etc. I bet I could find a lot of fat in that Red Army of yours to cut.






pompack -> RE: Heavy Industry DOES Matter!! (3/7/2012 2:01:56 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Helpless

You consume ~ 32k supplies a turn just to feed them. Plus they burn 15K to build forts in mud, which is going to go up in clear.
.



Helpless:

How can you tell this from the reports? [&:]



Baelfiin -> RE: Heavy Industry DOES Matter!! (3/7/2012 2:08:44 AM)

Without a doubt you guys!  I didnt disband anything, didn't rail any HI out and have been building tons of forts... way more than I should.  What I think is really cool is that the system reflects that going overboard will cause you problems at some point in the long run.



Flaviusx -> RE: Heavy Industry DOES Matter!! (3/7/2012 2:16:40 AM)

I'm a little concerned that your HI isn't producing as much as it ought to, Scott. When does the 130% multiplier kick in during 1942?



Flaviusx -> RE: Heavy Industry DOES Matter!! (3/7/2012 2:19:59 AM)

Here are the relevant screens from our game as a point of comparison. I am comfortably in supply surplus as far as I can tell.



[image]local://upfiles/32811/5F4EB3F96AAB48FCAA47F3A39ACCB84B.jpg[/image]



Flaviusx -> RE: Heavy Industry DOES Matter!! (3/7/2012 2:20:30 AM)

And the production screen.



[image]local://upfiles/32811/83146C894F5D44C2B9FC02174DC900E2.jpg[/image]



Helpless -> RE: Heavy Industry DOES Matter!! (3/7/2012 8:55:10 AM)

quote:

How can you tell this from the reports?


I was loading the game in the debugger. But it is probably possible to provide this number in Event Log as well.



gingerbread -> RE: Heavy Industry DOES Matter!! (3/7/2012 11:23:46 AM)

The multiplier is in effect in Scott's game, it's applied to the number of factories at each site and the result is rounded down.

During 1942 with 1.3 as multiplier, size 4 and above will increase by one, except for Leningrad (lost) and Moscow that increase by two.

88500/500 equals 177, so Scott is missing 5000 supply produced due to lack of resources.

The 84 U-2VS will cost ~350 supply/turn, so not much savings to be had from them.



Farfarer61 -> RE: Heavy Industry DOES Matter!! (3/7/2012 11:45:09 AM)

Doesn't the top screen show that three of the 189 HI did not get any resources? Perhaps only enough resources for 186 HI are in control. Another test is to put a fort and a division in Chelyabinsk, and another fort+division 5 hexes from a rail line much further west and watch the work...



mmarquo -> RE: Heavy Industry DOES Matter!! (3/7/2012 1:41:56 PM)

Is the below correct?


1. 88,500 Tons of supplies were produced; and 47,435 were consumed in all production (vehicle, air, ground and armament), so there is a surfeit at least for production.

2. And the excess of supplies get stockpiled? 88,500 - 47,435 = 41,065.

3. However, Pavel notes that your army is comsuming ~ 47,000 K in supplies --> I guess that this is the number we need to see in the event log to better understand logistics; thus the delta between what is left over after consumption for production and supplies needed for for the troops is 47,000 - 41,000 = 6,000/turn

4. In this case the supply needed is 214,000 - supply on hand 197,000 = 17,000 deficit can be accumulated quickly.

But if production needs are 47,435, and needs for the troops is 47,000, where does the number of 214,391 (needed) come from??

Did all the pundits who claimed that HIs were useless in the game forgotten that units on the map consume supplies?

I am confused, thanks for your help,

Marquo




Helpless -> RE: Heavy Industry DOES Matter!! (3/7/2012 1:56:21 PM)

quote:


But if production needs are 47,435, and needs for the troops is 47,000, where does the number of 214,391 (needed) come from??


The need you see on the brackets is generated by the industry needs + port and population needs. Port locks are removed prior the unit supply section, but population don't.



marty_01 -> RE: Heavy Industry DOES Matter!! (3/7/2012 2:26:57 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Marquo

Did all the pundits who claimed that HIs were useless in the game forgotten that units on the map consume supplies?

I am confused, thanks for your help,

Marquo


I'd like to see an answer to this one myself...from a non-pundit. Is there or isnt there a reason for Soviet Players to evacuate HI in 1941 & 42?



Flaviusx -> RE: Heavy Industry DOES Matter!! (3/7/2012 2:33:05 PM)

There is no reason to evacuate if you avoid doing certain things that Scott did here; he pushed the system to the limit and it appears to have blown up on him.

I have never run into these supply issues, myself.



Farfarer61 -> RE: Heavy Industry DOES Matter!! (3/7/2012 3:40:22 PM)

Send the entire Air Force to the reserve, move bases to rail lines. Emergency move, but great help for supply and truck availability.



Peltonx -> RE: Heavy Industry DOES Matter!! (3/7/2012 9:27:07 PM)

Hmm looks like it does matter if you dont understand game mechanics.

I have a game where this issue appears on my end to be effecting the person I am fighting, but I need to play another 40 turns heheh.

Might be a good idea for newbies to evac 1 HVy per 4 armaments.

Just my 2 cents.



Peltonx -> RE: Heavy Industry DOES Matter!! (3/7/2012 9:28:04 PM)

On the other hand so they have a few less supplies, what effect will it have on the red army?



mmarquo -> RE: Heavy Industry DOES Matter!! (3/7/2012 11:25:11 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Helpless

The need you see on the brackets is generated by the industry needs + port and population needs. Port locks are removed prior the unit supply section, but population don't.


So the game engine calculates the needs of population?? Food, heating oil, fuel for private vehciles ?? What does this mean?



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