RE: Don to Danube Feedback - so how is it? (Full Version)

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Redmarkus5 -> RE: Don to Danube Feedback - so how is it? (3/11/2012 5:09:25 PM)

+1

Now, to those who hate WitE complainers:

We buy the game and we play it because we love it and see its potential, just like you.

Some of us put long hours of free time into community mods for the same reasons.

We complain because the flaws are obvious, yet they haven't been fixed in over a year. Oh, and because we're paying customers and therefore entitled to complain. And because one outcome of WW2 was a guarantee to this right to free speech for all of us. And because forums like this offer a channel for lodging complaints and getting feedback from the devs and the wider fan base. Need any more reasons? I have a ton.

We don't abuse other members. We don't waste time in other forums, even when we own those games. We merely seek perfection from the best developers in this market because we know they can deliver it.



Erik Rutins -> RE: Don to Danube Feedback - so how is it? (3/11/2012 6:35:57 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: redmarkus4
Now, to those who hate WitE complainers:
We buy the game and we play it because we love it and see its potential, just like you.
Some of us put long hours of free time into community mods for the same reasons.
We don't abuse other members. We don't waste time in other forums, even when we own those games. We merely seek perfection from the best developers in this market because we know they can deliver it.


I don't see any hate or abuse. I do see agreement and disagreement but that's normal.

quote:

We complain because the flaws are obvious, yet they haven't been fixed in over a year. Oh, and because we're paying customers and therefore entitled to complain. And because one outcome of WW2 was a guarantee to this right to free speech for all of us. And because forums like this offer a channel for lodging complaints and getting feedback from the devs and the wider fan base. Need any more reasons? I have a ton.


The only part here where I feel you are being unfair is with this comment that things haven't been fixed in over a year. Just take a look at the six updates since release and all the fixes, changes and improvements. A lot has indeed been fixed, many changes have been made and the result is IMHO a better game. The AI is included in that. The 1.06 AI could beat the 1.00 AI fairly handily, but it will never be as good as a good human player. It's not perfect, but it serves as very good training and can give a good player a challenge if you set it to Challenging or higher.

Regards,

- Erik





Redmarkus5 -> RE: Don to Danube Feedback - so how is it? (3/11/2012 9:35:01 PM)

I'm just tired of people who imply that we don't have any business complaining about the item we bought.

I did acknowledge all the detailed fixes that have been delivered. Do you have any response to these three AI issues/observations?

1. Make the AI defend cities, especially if they are also victory hexes.

Yes, pretty much unfixable at this point without risk of breaking more than it fixes. Gary put in code to try to get it to go after victory cities, and quite awhile ago had tried to get it to defend cities obviously without a lot of impact. The AI is written by Gary, and Gary alone. It is incredibly complex and easily broken, so at some point the cost/benefit analysis says it's time to give up.

2. Make it attack when it has overwhelming local superiority.

Again, it isn't as easy as it sounds. However, Gary had for many months suspected a problem in an AI routine that was trying to get the Soviet AI especially to attack more aggressively when it had superiority. He wrote a special routine to help this problem, but it never seemed to work as well as he wanted it to. About a week ago while working on WitW AI in Sicily/Italy, Gary discovered that one routine was overriding the newer routine and preventing the attacks he was looking for. He made the changes in WitW and saw an immediate improvement. He then made a similar change in WitE and tests showed him that it was finally being more aggressive. This will be in the next WitE patch. It will help, but we can't say yet exactly how much. This is one of those cases where Gary could work for weeks/months and never see the problem, but seeing the code working in another situation (WitW) allowed him to see the problem.

3. Restrain it from advancing beyond the ZoC reach of follow-on forces.

Un-fixable?

I'm not sure what you mean by this. I will say that Gary has spent months of additional work on the WitE AI after release, some of which was possible because he knew it would carry over to WitW. Almost every AI issue that has been brought up on the forum (if not every issue, and certainly every issue with detailed saves) has been looked at by Gary at one time or another. He improves what he can, but no, it is not at all easy to "fix" many of the issues that are brought up.



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