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warspite1 -> RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? (4/28/2016 6:14:57 AM)

Skagerrak is arriving today! Its going to be a tall order to get The Rules of the Game and Skagerrak finished by the 9th (the date of The Jutland Debate) but I'll give it a go!




Jagdtiger14 -> RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? (4/28/2016 6:50:56 AM)

I have to wait until July 27 for Skagerrak[:@]




parusski -> RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? (4/28/2016 7:35:51 AM)

Just started The German War: A Nation Under Arms, 1939-1945; Citizens and Soldiers by Nicholas Stargardt




wodin -> RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? (4/28/2016 11:54:17 AM)

Have that in my wish list. It looks a real corker!
quote:

ORIGINAL: parusski

Just started The German War: A Nation Under Arms, 1939-1945; Citizens and Soldiers by Nicholas Stargardt





Ranger33 -> RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? (4/28/2016 4:38:09 PM)

Reading Caesar's Commentaries by the main man himself, Gaius Julius Caesar. Been wanting to read it for a few years. Decided to read it now because I'm getting Falling Sky which is the newest game in the COIN series from GMT. Figure it will be a lot more interesting if I know the history in greater depth.




warspite1 -> RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? (4/28/2016 5:45:11 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Skagerrak is arriving today! Its going to be a tall order to get The Rules of the Game and Skagerrak finished by the 9th (the date of The Jutland Debate) but I'll give it a go!
warspite1

Arrived!

Right its going to have to be The Rules of the Game to and from work and Skagerrak for as long as I can keep my eyes open before going to sleep (and the book smacks me in the face as usual).....

I hope to review all three together when finished.




Chris Hampton -> RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? (4/30/2016 4:30:58 PM)

Panzer Commander, by Von Luck. Excellent read and covers almost every major theater France, Eastern Front, North Afrika along with a look at his time as a Soviet POW...




Jagdtiger14 -> RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? (4/30/2016 5:32:58 PM)

quote:

Panzer Commander, by Von Luck. Excellent read and covers almost every major theater France, Eastern Front, North Afrika along with a look at his time as a Soviet POW...


In that vein (other than the POW part, which would be very interesting) is a book I find myself re-reading over and over...it never gets old:

Panzer Battles by Mellenthin. I'll have to look into Panzer Commander...thanks for the recommend!




Zorch -> RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? (5/1/2016 12:22:40 PM)

'Bismarck and Hood: The Battle of the Denmark Strait - A Technical Analysis for a New Perspective'

A VERY technical analysis of what happened between 0556 and 0609 on 24 May 1941.




warspite1 -> RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? (5/1/2016 3:06:11 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch

'Bismarck and Hood: The Battle of the Denmark Strait - A Technical Analysis for a New Perspective'

A VERY technical analysis of what happened between 0556 and 0609 on 24 May 1941.
warspite1

Sounds interesting....




Zorch -> RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? (5/1/2016 3:56:52 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch

'Bismarck and Hood: The Battle of the Denmark Strait - A Technical Analysis for a New Perspective'

A VERY technical analysis of what happened between 0556 and 0609 on 24 May 1941.
warspite1

Sounds interesting....


Full of chi-square tests and null hypotheses, etc. I didn't check his math but it appears credible.




warspite1 -> RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? (5/1/2016 6:47:33 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch

'Bismarck and Hood: The Battle of the Denmark Strait - A Technical Analysis for a New Perspective'

A VERY technical analysis of what happened between 0556 and 0609 on 24 May 1941.
warspite1

Sounds interesting....


Full of chi-square tests and null hypotheses, etc. I didn't check his math but it appears credible.
warspite1

What conclusions does he draw?




Zorch -> RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? (5/1/2016 10:05:35 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch

'Bismarck and Hood: The Battle of the Denmark Strait - A Technical Analysis for a New Perspective'

A VERY technical analysis of what happened between 0556 and 0609 on 24 May 1941.
warspite1

Sounds interesting....


Full of chi-square tests and null hypotheses, etc. I didn't check his math but it appears credible.
warspite1

What conclusions does he draw?


After all the analysis...he concludes it was basically a 'lucky' hit that set off the 4" magazine (after exhaustive discussion of Bismarck's gunnery), and triggered first the aft 15", and then the fore 15" magazines. He says the fatal shot likely penetrated the side (not deck) armor and detonated on Hood's port quarter. The German practice of firing 'ladder' ranging salvos enabled Bismarck to get the range quickly.

He notes how many variables broke badly for the British, including Hood shooting at Prince Eugen, the aft turrets not being able to bear on account of Hood's turn to the north hours before when contact with Bismarck was briefly lost, and Tovey's decision to send PoW with Hood. Tovey could have transferred his flag to PoW and sent the well trained KGV with Hood.

Extensive footnotes, diagrams and tables.




warspite1 -> RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? (5/2/2016 10:18:12 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch

'Bismarck and Hood: The Battle of the Denmark Strait - A Technical Analysis for a New Perspective'

A VERY technical analysis of what happened between 0556 and 0609 on 24 May 1941.
warspite1

Sounds interesting....


Full of chi-square tests and null hypotheses, etc. I didn't check his math but it appears credible.
warspite1

What conclusions does he draw?


After all the analysis...he concludes it was basically a 'lucky' hit that set off the 4" magazine (after exhaustive discussion of Bismarck's gunnery), and triggered first the aft 15", and then the fore 15" magazines. He says the fatal shot likely penetrated the side (not deck) armor and detonated on Hood's port quarter. The German practice of firing 'ladder' ranging salvos enabled Bismarck to get the range quickly.

He notes how many variables broke badly for the British, including Hood shooting at Prince Eugen, the aft turrets not being able to bear on account of Hood's turn to the north hours before when contact with Bismarck was briefly lost, and Tovey's decision to send PoW with Hood. Tovey could have transferred his flag to PoW and sent the well trained KGV with Hood.

Extensive footnotes, diagrams and tables.
warspite1

Did he give any insight into why a) Hood's gunnery was so awful and b) why did Prince of Wales not take the lead?

Interesting point about KGV not being used in favour of PoW. Given Hood's armour deficiencies was there ever a suggestion that both PoW and KGV be used?

Sorry for so many questions but after my recent Jutland splurge, I don't think Mrs W would take too kindly to another delivery from Amazon....[:D]
[:(]




Zorch -> RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? (5/2/2016 5:35:24 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch

'Bismarck and Hood: The Battle of the Denmark Strait - A Technical Analysis for a New Perspective'

A VERY technical analysis of what happened between 0556 and 0609 on 24 May 1941.
warspite1

Sounds interesting....


Full of chi-square tests and null hypotheses, etc. I didn't check his math but it appears credible.
warspite1

What conclusions does he draw?


After all the analysis...he concludes it was basically a 'lucky' hit that set off the 4" magazine (after exhaustive discussion of Bismarck's gunnery), and triggered first the aft 15", and then the fore 15" magazines. He says the fatal shot likely penetrated the side (not deck) armor and detonated on Hood's port quarter. The German practice of firing 'ladder' ranging salvos enabled Bismarck to get the range quickly.

He notes how many variables broke badly for the British, including Hood shooting at Prince Eugen, the aft turrets not being able to bear on account of Hood's turn to the north hours before when contact with Bismarck was briefly lost, and Tovey's decision to send PoW with Hood. Tovey could have transferred his flag to PoW and sent the well trained KGV with Hood.

Extensive footnotes, diagrams and tables.
warspite1

Did he give any insight into why a) Hood's gunnery was so awful and b) why did Prince of Wales not take the lead?

Interesting point about KGV not being used in favour of PoW. Given Hood's armour deficiencies was there ever a suggestion that both PoW and KGV be used?

Sorry for so many questions but after my recent Jutland splurge, I don't think Mrs W would take too kindly to another delivery from Amazon....[:D]
[:(]

He (an admiral in the Italian navy) says that PoW's First Gunnery Officer until recently held that position on Hood. Was his replacement less skilled? He notes the superiority of German stereoscopic range finders over British coincidence ones, and the inadequacies of Hood's Dreyer table vs the German C38K and PoW's APCT. He praises PoW's gunnery accuracy on a shot per hit basis, although it took her a while to find the range. He spends a lot a time on the question of whether there was a systematic error in Bismarck's targeting system, which I didn't understand.

I think Bismarck would have fired at Hood regardless of which shipled.
I don't think he mentions pairing the 2 modern battleships, although it would make sense.

A short book, but important, maybe definitive.




warspite1 -> RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? (5/2/2016 6:28:00 PM)

Thanks - I will have to win a few brownie points and then who knows. Father's day must be soon mustn't it? [:)]




roymathew -> RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? (5/3/2016 5:49:16 AM)

jungle book........




reg113 -> RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? (5/4/2016 1:02:32 AM)

Again reading "Shattered Sword", for the nth time.




wodin -> RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? (5/4/2016 1:10:20 AM)

Are any of you willing to do a top twenty reads for my blog? I'd like to run a series of peoples top ten military history non fiction and then top ten military fiction. All you'd have to do is write a small a paragraph about yourself and your interests then do your lists. I'll then publish linking the books to amazon.

If you fancy it PM me:)




warspite1 -> RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? (5/11/2016 2:40:30 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: reg113

Again reading "Shattered Sword", for the nth time.
warspite1

I hope I get the chance to read this again. Such a brilliant book - I wish all histories were written in this style.




warspite1 -> RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? (5/11/2016 2:49:23 AM)

Finished The Rules of the Game and will review in due course. Meantime started Skagerrak and..........

..... let's just hope its a bad start and that it gets better - but I'm not holding my breath.

Not sure what nationality the author is, but he doesn't construct sentences like English is his first language. He also has an awful habit of using German names for things that he hasn't explained. But what is really grating is that he feels he has to write Scheer and Hipper's rank EVERYTIME he mentions them. AAAAARRRRRGGGGHHH!!!




loki100 -> RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? (5/11/2016 7:58:45 AM)

been quiet on this thread for a while. Just read the first two volumes of Alistair Reynolds 'Revelation Space' SF books (Revelation Space and Redemption Ark).

Have to say, am deeply impressed. First 50 pages of the first was a bit mheh (there is an interesting plot line that goes nowhere) but its wonderful to read a book about inter-stellar empires held together by sub-light speed travel (he assumes no miraculous solutions to this problem). Gives it all a very different feel. Lots of intelligent musings on issues such as longevity, how humanity splits into factions (some refuse to use artificial body parts, other embrace this, some are born and live in space etc). And has a good (and scary) go at answering the question 'if the universe is so old, why isn't it teaming with intelligent life?').

Since then started 'Century Rain' which has some similar ideas - especially about 'enhanced' humans but mostly based in and around Earth (could put you off nanotechnology though).




parusski -> RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? (5/11/2016 8:42:57 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

Have that in my wish list. It looks a real corker!
quote:

ORIGINAL: parusski

Just started The German War: A Nation Under Arms, 1939-1945; Citizens and Soldiers by Nicholas Stargardt




It is a hell of a corker. I listened to the audio version. My wife heard some before I plugged in the headphones and she said "leave it on the speakers", which I did and she was as mesmerized as I was.




cpdeyoung -> RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? (5/11/2016 12:19:31 PM)

@loki100,

You are so right, very good stuff.

I think I liked "The Precept" best of all. If you have not read it yet you are in for a treat.

I am just about to finish the fourth of Walter H. Hunt's "Dark" books. Hunt does allow his science to have "jumps", but this is not a hard science SF series, but it is fun military SF. I read the whole series a decade or so ago, and enjoyed the rereading.

Chuck




Gilmer -> RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? (5/12/2016 12:00:40 AM)

I'm reading the Game of Thrones books.




warspite1 -> RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? (5/12/2016 6:35:40 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Finished The Rules of the Game and will review in due course. Meantime started Skagerrak and..........

..... let's just hope its a bad start and that it gets better - but I'm not holding my breath.

Not sure what nationality the author is, but he doesn't construct sentences like English is his first language. He also has an awful habit of using German names for things that he hasn't explained. But what is really grating is that he feels he has to write Scheer and Hipper's rank EVERYTIME he mentions them. AAAAARRRRRGGGGHHH!!!

warspite1

Nope this is not getting any better. Treacle....wading against the tide in treacle. That is how reading this book feels. There is clearly some useful information in the book - the guy just cannot write in either a manner that is easy to read or that makes the subject interesting.... I'm nowhere near Jutland yet and frankly I am not sure I am going to get there.

If you want a book about Jutland - don't get this one.

Disappointed [:@]




warspite1 -> RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? (5/14/2016 9:55:18 AM)

Further to the review of Jellicoe's Jutland An Unfinished Battle, here is a review of another Jutland tome

The Rules of the Game - Jutland and the British Naval Command (Andrew Gordon) Penguin

This book is at times very technical – and on occasion is far from an easy read (unless one has some degree of naval/sailing background). That said, the book is still an enjoyable read and the author does at least provide the occasional diagram to help clarify the points being made. It is interesting to see just how difficult it is to always get accurate information on who did what and when. The author uses track charts from the 5th Battle Squadron to show the movements of each...the results are amazingly different. The German records - supposedly much better - contain many of the same problems.

It is a strange book in that it is, in effect, two books in one. Whether the two books are linked will depend on your point of view, and whether you agree with the central point the author is trying to make. One book (the first and third sections) is about the Battle of Jutland (although the book does not deal with the entirety of the battle in the same level of detail as some). Having said that, it is this book that has been the most helpful to me in fully understanding the various stages of the battle, particularly the events post the arrival of the Grand Fleet. In the first and third sections of the book, when the author is writing about the battle, this book was nothing short of unputdownable (I still don’t know if that is a word!) – absolutely riveting. There are a few brief personal vignettes too that break the heart.

Whilst the author makes clear his belief that there were command failings during the battle, he does not set about to simply rubbish Royal Navy performance at Jutland. He is also very clear about the four major mistakes made by Admiral Scheer during the battle – any of which could have been fatal to the German cause.

The second, book within a book, concentrates on what the author believes to be the reason that the Royal Navy failed to win a decisive victory at Jutland.

This section, in itself is not uninteresting – and the author makes what I believe is a pertinent point around the signals procedure that the RN entered the war with; a procedure that was too complicated, took too long and was too reliant on not having the few specialists able to operate it taken out in battle and/or the masts to fly them from still intact and/or the visibility to see them under battle conditions. To this end there is a large section on the sinking of the HMS Victoria in 1893 and the drowning of Vice-Admiral Tryon (who was trying to pioneer a less complicated signals process – one that more or less died with him).

Like most (all?) books on Jutland, the Jellicoe vs Beatty debate is always there in the background. The author is quite scathing of Beatty post war but appears to believe Jellicoe “and his men” to be the main cause of the problem during the battle. This is where I believe the middle section of the book loses its way somewhat. The author suggests that the RN in 1914 was led by admirals that were not trained to think enough for themselves; that peacetime conditions and unrivalled naval superiority led to a situation whereby the only thing that mattered was to have the shiniest ship. This is not an unbelievable situation – after all its human nature that unrivalled success can lead to complacency. But it’s when the author tries to make a case for why that state of affairs existed that I think he over eggs the pudding and goes too far to try and make his case.

Were there some admirals holding positions that they shouldn’t? Well it would be strange in any large organisation if that were not the case, but essentially the author brings in links to the Royal Family, Polar Exploration, Freemasonry and Jellicoe’s circle and it all goes a bit too far in my opinion, without really proving anything. Does being a friend of the future George V mean one is unsuited for battle? Does being outside that circle mean that one is? As part of this argument I think Rear-Admiral Hugh Evan-Thomas (commander of the 5th Battle Squadron) gets a particularly rough ride but he is a useful foil if you want to make Beatty’s case appear better.

But even if you don’t agree with the author’s views in the middle section of the book, it’s interesting to help get a feel for the Royal Navy at that time – and as I said earlier, when the author is writing about the battle, this book is simply brilliant.

Would I recommend this book? One word - YES!




loki100 -> RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? (5/14/2016 10:26:47 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: cpdeyoung

@loki100,

You are so right, very good stuff.

I think I liked "The Precept" best of all. If you have not read it yet you are in for a treat.

I am just about to finish the fourth of Walter H. Hunt's "Dark" books. Hunt does allow his science to have "jumps", but this is not a hard science SF series, but it is fun military SF. I read the whole series a decade or so ago, and enjoyed the rereading.

Chuck


you've convinced me - bought, read first chapter, completely hooked [;)]




Speedysteve -> RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? (5/14/2016 12:59:31 PM)

Thanks for the review Warspite. Food for thought on that book. I recently finished Massie's "Castles of Steel" again which I thoroughly enjoy.




warspite1 -> RE: What Book Are You Reading at the moment? (5/31/2016 7:31:46 PM)

Bought Friedman's Fighting the Great War at Sea some time back. With all the Jutland stuff going on I thought it would be a good time to read it. Never read a reference book cover to cover before - let's give this one a go.




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