European Maps (Full Version)

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LeibstandartePzD -> European Maps (1/17/2001 8:45:00 PM)

Gentlemen, I'm currently working on obtaining a set of CD-ROM's that cover Europe, North Africa and Southwest Asia at either 1:50000 and/or 1:25000 scale. These maps are copies of the military map system currently employed by the US Military without the military grid system and without certain military information on them. In other words de-classified maps of the above mentioned regions. As soon as I'm able to get ahold of them I will post here and let you know. At best I'd like to post them online for all to use in their entirety but I don't know if their size will allow this. At teh very least I can send a certain amount of copied CD-ROM's out by mail for others to copy and mail as well. I could also provide a certain amount by e-mail for specific regions. I think this would prove to be an invaluable tool for creating maps both for SPWaW and SPMW when it becomes available. As well as other games down the road. I'd like to hear your suggestions on this as well as any ideas as to how to use this to best advantage to the gaming community here. I will of course provide anything I get to Matrix free of change. It's the least I can do. I look forward to hearing your imput on this gentlemen. ------------------ Former member of the 8th US cavalry and a grandson of a Leibstandarte tanker. Former name on these boards was Leibstandarte.



Warhorse -> (1/17/2001 9:06:00 PM)

Excellent idea Leibstandart!! Don't you love that word "Former"!? Former Marine [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/wink.gif[/img] ------------------ Mike Amos Meine Ehre Heisst Treue



RUsco -> (1/17/2001 9:32:00 PM)

Great idea. Finally a place to get detailed maps for scenarios and campaigns. Thanks.



skukko -> (1/17/2001 10:04:00 PM)

Yes [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img] mosh



Don Doom -> (1/17/2001 10:25:00 PM)

Where did you order them from and do they have some on the crimea area of russia. Keep up the good work ex-grunt. [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img] Doom [This message has been edited by Don Doom (edited January 17, 2001).]



LeibstandartePzD -> (1/18/2001 1:45:00 AM)

Don, I'm not ordering them. A buddy of mine is a topo engineer in the Army and is trying to get a hold of them for me. The Army has sets with and without the military information on them. Naturally I'm trying to get copies of the non-military ones. From my understanding they cover the former Soviet Union all the way to the Urals so yes the Crimea will be included. ------------------ Former member of the 8th US cavalry and a grandson of a Leibstandarte tanker. Former name on these boards was Leibstandarte.



Tankhead -> (1/18/2001 2:09:00 AM)

Hello LeibstandartePzD! Great Idea, I'm very interested in these map. Maybe we could work something out to have some posted on my site. [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img] Looking forward to the maps. Tankhead ------------------ Rick Cloutier [email]rcclout@telusplanet.net[/email] Coordinator: Tankhead's SPWAW Resources http://members.tripod.com/tankhead__1



LeibstandartePzD -> (1/18/2001 2:23:00 AM)

Tankhead once I get them you more than welcome to post them all. My only concern is the size of them all together. I was thinking about breaking it up in zipped chuncks to be spread out over the SPWaW sites so that no one site gets overloaded with them. At any rate I'll keep you posted. ------------------ Former member of the 8th US cavalry and a grandson of a Leibstandarte tanker. Former name on these boards was Leibstandarte.



Wild Bill -> (1/18/2001 2:26:00 AM)

Troop, you know how badly I want those. I would love to have these maps. Please let me know how I can get them. Thanks for the offer...Wild Bill ------------------ In Arduis Fidelis Wild Bill Wilder Coordinator, Scenario Design Matrix Games



Tankhead -> (1/18/2001 4:04:00 AM)

Thanks LeibstandartePzD! You are tha man of the hour! [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img] Great Idea to distribute to all SP sites. Tankhead
quote:

Originally posted by LeibstandartePzD: Tankhead once I get them you more than welcome to post them all. My only concern is the size of them all together. I was thinking about breaking it up in zipped chuncks to be spread out over the SPWaW sites so that no one site gets overloaded with them. At any rate I'll keep you posted.
------------------ Rick Cloutier [email]rcclout@telusplanet.net[/email] Coordinator: Tankhead's SPWAW Resources http://members.tripod.com/tankhead__1



LeibstandartePzD -> (1/18/2001 4:06:00 AM)

I'm not sure if they can be bought or ordered. Like I mentioned I'm getting them from a buddy who has run across the disks before. When he is able to get a copy for me I will provide it to as many people as possible for free. I will of course have a copy for you as soon as I get them. No time frame on when I'll get them but you'll receive a copy shortly after I do. ------------------ Former member of the 8th US cavalry and a grandson of a Leibstandarte tanker. Former name on these boards was Leibstandarte.



Larry Holt -> (1/18/2001 4:11:00 AM)

Thank you for your offer to help the Matrix community. One word of caution to scenario builders though. Europe has been subject to a tremendous amount of urbanization in the last 50 years. Villages have grown to towns, towns have merged to cities, roads built, forests removed, etc. I did terrain analysis in Europe in the early '80s and the average distance between built up areas (villages or larger) is 2KM, IIRC. (note for SPMW: This allows infantry to strike armor with light missiles as enemy armor comes out of a village then fall back to the next one without the enemy armor having a chance to use its longer range fires.) In 1940 this was not the case, it was much wider open. Of course the basic topology will remain the same. ------------------ An old soldier but not yet a faded one. OK, maybe just a bit faded.



Don -> (1/18/2001 6:32:00 AM)

Just like WB, I would kill [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/wink.gif[/img] to get those maps. It is THE hardest thing to get. I would gladly send out a number of CD's. Don



pops -> (1/18/2001 9:59:00 AM)

...this is starting to sound positively clandestine.....just remember don't hand over the briefcase unless he says ..."ham and jam make the squrrels itchy..." you already know your response to this................



pops -> (1/18/2001 10:00:00 AM)

...this is starting to sound positively clandestine.....just remember don't hand over the briefcase unless he says ..."ham and jam make the squrrels itchy..." you already know your response to this................



kao16 -> (1/18/2001 12:45:00 PM)

A local company is (or will be) offering 1:50,000 maps on CD. They were looking at 5 tiles per standard 1:50,000 map at NZ$50 each. They say that the file size would be too big for internet download. Their resolution was one pixel = 2.5m^2. (one kilometre = 400 pixels, 1km^2 = 160,000 pixels) Anybody know how many bits/bytes per pixel?



Thornado -> (1/18/2001 3:43:00 PM)

Hmmm Seems like a fairly low resolution... The size of that map (in 24bit colours) should only be 480 kb uncompressed. Not such a large download. Their maps must be larger and have higher resolution than that? ------------------ _______________________ Thornado - You'll never know what hit you -



Larry Holt -> (1/19/2001 12:04:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by kao16: Anybody know how many bits/bytes per pixel?
The color depth determines the number of bits per pixel. Black and white is 1 bit per pixel (1 for black, 0 for white), 16 bit color is just that, 16 bits per pixel. The number of colors that can be displayed is 2 to the power of the number of bits (e.g. 16 bit is 2^16 or 65,536 colors) ------------------ An old soldier but not yet a faded one. OK, maybe just a bit faded.



Drake -> (1/19/2001 12:44:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by Larry Holt: Thank you for your offer to help the Matrix community. One word of caution to scenario builders though. Europe has been subject to a tremendous amount of urbanization in the last 50 years. Villages have grown to towns, towns have merged to cities, roads built, forests removed, etc. I did terrain analysis in Europe in the early '80s and the average distance between built up areas (villages or larger) is 2KM, IIRC. (note for SPMW: This allows infantry to strike armor with light missiles as enemy armor comes out of a village then fall back to the next one without the enemy armor having a chance to use its longer range fires.) In 1940 this was not the case, it was much wider open. Of course the basic topology will remain the same.
What you say their is very true Larry, why do you think im not asking for them maps, onless their done in or around the date im doing the map I wount use it. Take Omaha and Dieppe maps, I used historic maps and pictures to do them two and I did see a map from today of that area and its much deffrent from the 1940s.



RockinHarry -> (1/19/2001 1:07:00 AM)

Hello Wargamers, Matrix people and LPzD Great idea with the maps. I hope this "dream" will come true. Not just for the purpose of mapmaking I would have a good use of them for my battlefield tours here in germany. I´m especially interested in the "Huertgen" area maps and all that relate to the "ruhrkessel" and "rhineland battle". As a veteran of Grigsby´s "Kampfgruppe" and "Panzer Strike" I´m looking forward to all further developments of SPWAW. Great work Matix!!! Go on. <<>>



kao16 -> (1/19/2001 8:26:00 AM)

quote:

Originally posted by Thornado: Hmmm Seems like a fairly low resolution... The size of that map (in 24bit colours) should only be 480 kb uncompressed. Not such a large download. Their maps must be larger and have higher resolution than that?
480kb? per square km maybe The scale is about 2cm = 1km. (@ 2.5m /pixel, 400 pixels per km) A km^2 is 160,000 pixels (and 4cm^2 of map) If using 16 bit colour we have 320kB per squ km (or 480kB in 24bit colour). An A4 photocopy (at 100%) covers about 15 x 10 km = 150 squ km. so: 150 x 320kb = 48,000kb or 48MB If 24 bit colour: x 3/2 = 72MB If 32 bit color: x 2 = 96MB A full chart is about A1, or 8 A4 sheets: 16 bit: = 384MB 24 bit: = 576MB 32 Bit: = 768MB Imagine re-downloading SPWaW 1-3 times for each map..... [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img] A SPWAW 100 x 200 hex map (representing 5 x 10 km = 50 km^2) would need a file of 50 x 320kB = 4.8MB (16bit colour)



BruceAZ -> (1/19/2001 8:40:00 AM)

I'm currently working on obtaining a set of CD-ROM's that cover Europe, North Africa and Southwest Asia Good news! Does the "Southwest Asia" cover any of the pacific island groups? I have a special interest in WW2 from the pacific point of view. These would be very helpful. In my "Guadalcanal" campaign (to be released in about 3-4 weeks) getting topo maps and photos of Guadalcanal was VERY difficult. Eventually found the data but put me back nearly $50 in cash. Good job. ------------------ "The most important element in war is man. And there are no tougher men than my China Marines." Major Gen. Archer 'Archy' Vandegrift, 1st Marine Division



Tombstone -> (1/19/2001 9:08:00 AM)

If I can ahold of those maps I'll piss my pants. I'll be more than happy to burn 10 copies and send them to people. Damn. Now I'm excited. Tomo



chief -> (1/22/2001 7:16:00 AM)

Gentlemen: Unless I'm much mistaken and my memory is failing a little, but did not National Geographics have maps available for that period (pre 1939 through 1946)of the ETO area...I know I read it somewhere that some of the invasion maps were from them???? I guess I'll have to go to their site and look around. [img]http://www.matrixgames.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img] ------------------ Sm:):)th Sailing...chief



Wild Bill -> (1/22/2001 9:26:00 AM)

Please let us know what you find, Chief, and the URL, also if you don't mind. Thanks!...WB ------------------ In Arduis Fidelis Wild Bill Wilder Coordinator, Scenario Design Matrix Games



USMCGrunt -> (1/22/2001 9:35:00 AM)

Seems that once again, National Geographic comes through. I know that in several other cases the US military has used National Geographic maps in operations. During the thirties when the Marines sent a couple officers into the pacific (sorry don't remember if it was "Bud" Edson or not), the initially used National Geographic maps and then modified them with their observations about harbors, landing facilities, etc. Also, I beleive NatGeo maps were also used for North Vietnam during that time and even as recently as Grenada in the 80's. Guess those folks make one heck of a map. ------------------ USMCGrunt -When it absolutely, positively, has to be destroyed overnight.



chief -> (1/22/2001 12:54:00 PM)

Wild Bill per ur request for URL, Wilco ------------------ Sm:):)th Sailing...chief



Thornado -> (1/22/2001 3:27:00 PM)

[QOute]An A4 photocopy (at 100%) covers about 15 x 10 km = 150 squ km. so: 150 x 320kb = 48,000kb or 48MB If 24 bit colour: x 3/2 = 72MB If 32 bit color: x 2 = 96MB A full chart is about A1, or 8 A4 sheets: 16 bit: = 384MB 24 bit: = 576MB 32 Bit: = 768MB Imagine re-downloading SPWaW 1-3 times for each map..... A SPWAW 100 x 200 hex map (representing 5 x 10 km = 50 km^2) would need a file of 50 x 320kB = 4.8MB (16bit colour)[/Qoute] Jepp, that makes sense. I was a little bit lazy not to calculate for the WHOLE map. Seems like a fullchartmap will just fit on a CD... ------------------ _______________________ Thornado - You'll never know what hit you -



Tombstone -> (1/23/2001 9:40:00 AM)

up



LeibstandartePzD -> (1/23/2001 4:45:00 PM)

From what I understand from my buddy it is a series of CD-ROM's. I'm not exactly sure how many as I've never seen the entire set. I know they do exist for almost teh whole globe it's just a matter of finind the ones without the military information on them and sending me copies. I'll post more information as I get it. ------------------ Former member of the 8th US cavalry and a grandson of a Leibstandarte tanker. Former name on these boards was Leibstandarte.



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