Texas_D (J) vs Marbakka (A) --- The Sun Rises in the East... (Full Version)

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marbakka -> Texas_D (J) vs Marbakka (A) --- The Sun Rises in the East... (3/24/2012 6:46:32 AM)

Please Note: This game was cancelled due to a unintentional setting by IJ in move 1 that pretty much ruined Japan's economy. We are restarting and a new AAR has been created



marbakka -> RE: Texas_D (J) vs Marbakka (A) --- The Sun Rises in the East... (3/24/2012 6:47:03 AM)

Game Summary

Pacific Date: December 8, 1941 (as of last update)
Victory Points: Japan (1616) / Allies (11254)
Allied Political Points: 150

Timeline

12/7/1941 - Japanese Attack! Troops land in the Philippines, Borneo, and Celebes



Cribtop -> RE: Texas_D (J) vs Marbakka (A) --- The Sun Rises in the East... (3/24/2012 7:15:17 AM)

Good luck! Although as you can see from my avatar it's hard not to pull for Texas_D in this one. [;)]



DOCUP -> RE: Texas_D (J) vs Marbakka (A) --- The Sun Rises in the East... (3/24/2012 1:01:25 PM)

Good Luck!!!  Do you have any thoughts or objectives in mind?



princep01 -> RE: Texas_D (J) vs Marbakka (A) --- The Sun Rises in the East... (3/24/2012 2:28:10 PM)

Yes, Marbakka, good luck and I hope you are a very patient person. As the Allies, you are generally going to have your head handed to you repeatedly over the first 4 months and you will continue to experience setbacks over the first year or more. It's a very long game, but those first few weeks are singularly tough on you.

But, there are some important decisions you need to make right away. Probably the most important initial decision for you is how you are going to handle Palembang. As you know, this is a vital oil center and will be very much in Japan's early thoughts. If you have read some of the AARs, you know Palembang is also defensible by the Allies. Some Allied players say as a rule DEFEND PALEMBANG; EVACUATE AS MANY TROOPS AS POSSIBLE FROM SINGAPORE . I agree with this, but the smart IJ player will do all in his considerable power to stop this. My goal is to get some artillery there by AP and fly/sail at least two full Bdes, some Base Force aviation support and a HQ into Palembang ASAP....like w/i a week. Use your stringbag torp A/C to hinder (or sink) the naval units he will try to interdict your transports with! Flying is somewhat safer than sailing, but you cannot fly heavy euipment out. Make a maximum effort here.

But, right now, you need to decide whether you are going to make Palembang a fortress and try for the early kill on Japan or whether you are going to strengthen it only to buy time. A "speed bump" defense (which I generally favor). Against the unsuspecting, the "all in" defense (getting everything possible out of Singers, Java, and India into southern Sumatra/Palembang) can win the game within 6 months, but against the experienced IJ player, an all in defense is very risky for you. The IJ may bypass Palembang, contain it and capture Ceylon/Burma/Java and even india if too extensively emptied)

Why Palembang and not Java or Singers? Palembang produces its own supply, is very hard to get to overland due to the very heavy and defensible terrain and is accessable by sea only by smaller vessels. Battleships and very large AP/AKs cannot get up the river. Any attack on a defended Palembang is naturally funneled into narrow approaches. IJ casualities will be high if this Palembang is well"staffed" early. LIKE EARLY!! Get your aerial transports in position and start fying selected units from Singers (many are not restricted...mostly III Indian Corp units. Sail heavy units/artillery from Singers to Palembang if possible.

Enough for now....if you found this helpful, I'll share more Allied strategy points with you later. However, Palembang is a decision you MUST make now.

Okay, one more thing as this decidion must ne negotiated now.. House rules. I never agree to let the IJ have more than the historical shot at PH. They get a free ride/surprise with all its bonuses and the Allies cannot do anything but suffer the first turn surprise. But that is it. The IJ has to return to a 4 or greater port before they can return to strike PH again. That's just fair to me. If the IJ are going to get all those historical surprise benefits, they have to play PH historically and leave after the first strike. They can come back if they wish to pursue a "take Hawaii" strategy (viable), but they have to go "home" first.



obvert -> RE: Texas_D (J) vs Marbakka (A) --- The Sun Rises in the East... (3/24/2012 3:04:26 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: marbakka

I'm as green as can be. I picked up the game on Texas_D's recommendation a few weeks ago. I've gone about a month into an AI game, played the Coral Sea and Guadalcanal scenarios a couple of times, and slogged my way through most of the manual (still going), but that is about the extent of my experience with WitP. I love strategy games and history, so I forsee a long relationship with this game.

As I have slowly learned the basics of the game, the AARs on this forum have been tremendously helpful. However, I'm one of those people who learns best by getting in and doing it. My hope is that you more experienced folks can watch over my shoulder and tell me when I'm blundering.



Welcome and good luck!

I think you'll find this an incredibly rich game experience, and the community to be generally helpful and responsive. An AAR for your first campaign is a great idea. You should get quite a lot of useful feedback.



marbakka -> RE: Texas_D (J) vs Marbakka (A) --- The Sun Rises in the East... (3/24/2012 4:23:17 PM)

Updated the original post to reflect that we're doing Scenario 2 (not 1).

He told me that I'd have turn 1 by the end of the day, but Saturdays are extremely busy for me, so it will probably be a few days before I can post my strategic ideas and really get the ball rolling.

Thanks for the welcome and I look forward to hearing your thoughts and advice.



princep01 -> RE: Texas_D (J) vs Marbakka (A) --- The Sun Rises in the East... (3/24/2012 5:28:29 PM)

Ughh, Scenario 2 and you a rookie? This is not good. My friend, you are a bold man.

Scen 2 gives the dastardly Johnny Jap a LOT more toys to play with as compared to Scen 1 and the varuius module variations out there. It is the "Could Japan have actually won" scenario. If you are playing with PDU on, then he probably will build a bigger air force in terms of planes than you due to the fixed number of aircraft reinforcements you receive. In my view, this is a scenario made for the IJ player to have a real chance to win militarily. Some player agree to play with no auto-victory as IJ has a real chance for that in Scen 2 with PDU "on".

A similar situation as yours was played out in the Greyjoy v rader Scenario 2 game of recent vintage. Greyjoy (Allies) was a virtual rookie and took on a seasoned vet in Scenario 2. Remarkably, despite losing way more of his fleet than he should, all of China and practically all of India, Greyjoy really picked up the game as it went along and made a real game of it. It is one of the more popular AARs ever and pops up from time to time. Technically, the game is still on, but both players revealed a really interesting "flaw" in the late year air game programming that sort of ruined the whole affair. Still, a very instructive read if you have the time. It is lengthy.

BTW, it is likely that the first real Allied turn will be extremely lengthy. It normally takes me 3-4 full evenings to get everything pointed in the right direction on that first turn. There are about a million mouse clicks involved. But, it is important that you think out an early strategy BEFORE you start clicking away. You really want to get things going toward at least some intermediate goals while you work on all the tactical clicking.

Be careful with your political points. Do NOT use many of your beginning allocation. These things are precious and once used, they accumulate very slowly....430 or so to change the command of a typical regiment and you are going to need a LOT of regiments ASAP to put up any kind of defense in Scen 2.



marbakka -> RE: Texas_D (J) vs Marbakka (A) --- The Sun Rises in the East... (3/25/2012 5:30:56 AM)

Please Note: This game was cancelled due to a unintentional setting by IJ in move 1 that pretty much ruined Japan's economy. We are restarting and a new AAR has been created



marbakka -> RE: Texas_D (J) vs Marbakka (A) --- The Sun Rises in the East... (3/25/2012 5:32:14 AM)

Japanese Surprise Attack - "A day that shall live in...wait...they attacked WHERE?"

[image]local://upfiles/41421/797B7EC7999A4FC58BC82E301D953E7F.jpg[/image]



marbakka -> RE: Texas_D (J) vs Marbakka (A) --- The Sun Rises in the East... (3/25/2012 5:35:15 AM)

Please Note: This game was cancelled due to a unintentional setting by IJ in move 1 that pretty much ruined Japan's economy. We are restarting and a new AAR has been created



marbakka -> RE: Texas_D (J) vs Marbakka (A) --- The Sun Rises in the East... (3/25/2012 5:36:57 AM)

Damaged ships in Manila sorted by FLT damage

(NOTE: There are a number of ships not shown that have severe SYS or FIRE damage, but I can only fit so much death in one screenshot)

[image]local://upfiles/41421/F33E66A27C43469380EEFFC9A8CA1889.jpg[/image]



Dan Nichols -> RE: Texas_D (J) vs Marbakka (A) --- The Sun Rises in the East... (3/25/2012 6:00:53 AM)

I would send Force Z to Singkawang. It should get there, fight a battle and then retire to its home base for rearm.



marbakka -> RE: Texas_D (J) vs Marbakka (A) --- The Sun Rises in the East... (3/25/2012 6:07:15 AM)

Please Note: This game was cancelled due to a unintentional setting by IJ in move 1 that pretty much ruined Japan's economy. We are restarting and a new AAR has been created



DOCUP -> RE: Texas_D (J) vs Marbakka (A) --- The Sun Rises in the East... (3/25/2012 6:29:19 AM)

My opponent stroke Manila on me and it still hurts me (June 42). Those subs and Aux ships will be missed. There are some Aux and ARD, or AR in DEI get it out of there now move it to Darwin or somewhere you plan on making a sub base. Try to get the Base Forces out at least a small cadre. Use your Cats to fly them out.

Force Z, put it to max speed and it can attack during the night phase. Do you know if he has a SAG in that hex?

DEI
It looks like IJ is moving fast. Watch for attacks down towards Ambon and Kendri. Don't let him cut you off from down here. Boela and another base close to it make oil. Try to get an AO Tan to these bases and pull out some oil. Drain as much oil from DEI as possible. But watch for KB and SAGs to come down the slot. Be prepared to run away fast. Usually you will only get one maybe 2 fuel/oil trips. Try and get some subs around the straits in DEI.




princep01 -> RE: Texas_D (J) vs Marbakka (A) --- The Sun Rises in the East... (3/25/2012 1:11:37 PM)

Regarding the use of Force Z, I'd be a bit more cautious. Using them at Singawang MIGHT zap some Trans and slow him a bit there, but his Borneo TFs are likely to have at least two BBs with them along with attendent CAs/DDs. In a night battle, he will have the advantage, Also, KB is KNOWN to be very close. It has already completed its mission at Manila and will likely swing south to prevent or punish just such an Allied strike.

These ships are valuable and can be successfully and relatively safely used in the easterm DEI where he is already active. I'd make for Soerabaja and base then there for the moment.

Also, the advice to pull out some cadres iis fine, but again, be careful with PP. Using a lot of them to change unit commands in the Phillipines is not a good idea. You cannot hope to save many of those troops, particularly with the emphasis he is showing for a quick reduction of the PI. I always try to save some of the Cebu and Subic Bay Base Forces.

Don't worry too much about the sub losses. Get your damaged ones out now. Its not good, but remember that 75%+ of their torps are going to dud anyway. The Dutch subs are more valuable at this point. You will get a LOT of American subs over the course of the game.

Personally, a quick grab of the PI strategy is a fool's errand in my view.

Finally, note that those Cat 4s can carry torpedos. If Manila is operable, they can really hurt the IJ with torpedo naval attacks. With KB around, it is probably not a good idea to use them that way right now, but they can be used from Singers or Java to good effect.



marbakka -> RE: Texas_D (J) vs Marbakka (A) --- The Sun Rises in the East... (3/27/2012 1:06:07 AM)

Please Note: This game was cancelled due to a unintentional setting by IJ in move 1 that pretty much ruined Japan's economy. We are restarting and a new AAR has been created



princep01 -> RE: Texas_D (J) vs Marbakka (A) --- The Sun Rises in the East... (3/27/2012 1:46:47 AM)

Good luck with your pass at Singkawang. I hope it bears abundant fruit...but, again, I would not have risked such a valuable asset this early.

On Ichang...wind up and hit it hard. You definitely can take it and should. Don't wait until he either reinforces it or abandons it. You can bleed a few IJA troopers there. While China has many problems and will always be short on supply, use the Other little Yellow Bastards to bleed the IJA where you can. Take a look at trying for Nanchang (east of Changsha). I have managed to take it both times I tried again human IJA opponents. You probably cannot hold it more than a couple of months, but it is not a high risk action and you will be dictating the action at least in part of China.

Burma...hold Rangoon and the trail open as long as you can. With the trail open, China gets 500 supply points as a bonus each turn. It is really difficult for the IJA (at least in scenario 1) to get a lot there until Singers falls. I frequently evacuate some troops from Singers to Rangoon...but, then I don't play Scenario 2.

Good luck on the Great Manila Track Meet.



BBfanboy -> RE: Texas_D (J) vs Marbakka (A) --- The Sun Rises in the East... (3/27/2012 3:21:16 AM)

Quote - Marbakka "I plan on fortifying Ceylan in a big way, so I'd thought to use Colombo as my hub for CT/Mombasa goodies".
Although Mombassa seems to be a supply source in the beginning because it has some, it barely gets enough to allow it to build its port/airfield up. DO NOT send convoys of ships there in expectation of hauling supply. They will use up the fuel and you will need to send a tanker to rescue them.
Re: Columbo, if IJ goes for India in a big way he can easily isolate Ceylon because there is little to stop KB and a half dozen BBs for quite some time. Using one of the ports on the rail network gives you a lot more options for moving supply eastward. If you have the latest AE update, you can stockpile where you like now.
Good luck with the game. I second the motion that you be inducted into the Masochist Hall of Fame for taking on Scenario 2 as a rookie. [:)]



Blackhorse -> RE: Texas_D (J) vs Marbakka (A) --- The Sun Rises in the East... (3/27/2012 9:30:47 AM)

Good luck, you are a brave man.[sm=00000436.gif]

Three thoughts in China:

1. Split the Corps you are resting/training behind the front (disabled squads recover faster that way)
2. Note your major industry/supply cities. Where the terrain makes it practical, defend in front of them. Once the Burma Road is cut, China's supply will be tenuous. And most industry/supply production in a city is cancelled whenever the IJA moves into the hex, even if they don't capture it immediately.
3. I recommend getting every eligible division you can across the border into Burma ASAP, then retreating into India. Once in India they can spend 6 months or so filling out, which they will never be able to do in China. There are the divisions already on the road between Lashio and Kunming, one at Mengtze, three at Tuyun, and three (good ones!) in Chungking.





marbakka -> RE: Texas_D (J) vs Marbakka (A) --- The Sun Rises in the East... (3/27/2012 3:08:18 PM)

Bah! I just agreed to give Texas_D a mulligan. He discovered a major mistake in his first turn which he'd had to recreate because his previous save was lost in a computer wipe. Basically, all his factories in Japan were expanding without him meaning for them too and ate up all his supplies *snicker*

*shrug*

I hate that it means I'll have to redo turn 1, but I made some mistakes in there anyway.

I'll start a new AAR for clarity. (Mods are welcome to delete this one if they wish)



HansBolter -> RE: Texas_D (J) vs Marbakka (A) --- The Sun Rises in the East... (3/27/2012 3:39:24 PM)

I strongly recommend reconsidering the use of Suva as a main point in your US/Aus supply route.

I find Pago Pago to be a far better choice. The approach routes to Suva are very restricted and a submarine commanders dream. The approach to Pago Pago is wide open. the route from the west coast to PP is also further east and less subject to interdiction from Baker/Canton that the route to Suva.

Also consider a straight run from LA or San Diego to Auckland for ships with the legs to make that trip. Again it is much further east than a route to Suva. I also use the East Coast to Cristobal to Auckland to Sydney route for all air and LCUs headed to Australia from the East Coast. Air and LCUs headed to SoPac go from East Coast to Cristobal to Pago Pago and then on to Suva or Noumea.

A lot about what routes work best will be determined by whether or not you hold Canton, and of course Christmas Island and Palmyra.



marbakka -> RE: Texas_D (J) vs Marbakka (A) --- The Sun Rises in the East... (3/27/2012 7:00:01 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

I strongly recommend reconsidering the use of Suva as a main point in your US/Aus supply route.

I find Pago Pago to be a far better choice. The approach routes to Suva are very restricted and a submarine commanders dream. The approach to Pago Pago is wide open. the route from the west coast to PP is also further east and less subject to interdiction from Baker/Canton that the route to Suva.

Also consider a straight run from LA or San Diego to Auckland for ships with the legs to make that trip. Again it is much further east than a route to Suva. I also use the East Coast to Cristobal to Auckland to Sydney route for all air and LCUs headed to Australia from the East Coast. Air and LCUs headed to SoPac go from East Coast to Cristobal to Pago Pago and then on to Suva or Noumea.

A lot about what routes work best will be determined by whether or not you hold Canton, and of course Christmas Island and Palmyra.


Hans, thanks for the advice! I'm basically looking for an excuse not to use Suva. My main holdup in going elsewhere is that it already has a headstart on the kind of port size I want to see for my hub. I'll take this advise into consideration in the (restarted) game.


Please Note: This game was cancelled due to a unintentional setting by IJ in move 1 that pretty much ruined Japan's economy. We are restarting and a new AAR has been created




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