Decisive victories get you no where! (Full Version)

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RPKUPK -> Decisive victories get you no where! (3/28/2012 1:58:20 AM)

No matter how well you do in the campaign expansion scenarios--and I have played through them all including '43--despite decisive victories and a steadily increasing core (by number and experience and medals) the campaign cycles through all the battles and nothing but worse news is reported, that the war is being lost. Now in reality, I guess, there were stellar commanders who did well most of the time yet fronts collapsed and wars were lost. Is that what Panzer Corps is--a fighting retreat--despite a long string of decisive victories that lead inevitably to losing the war? Is there a major flaw in the game's design? Or, will I just get the trite answer--the Germans lost the war. What happened to WHAT IF?



Shawkhan -> RE: Decisive victories get you no where! (3/28/2012 2:57:56 AM)

Panzer Corps is an Operational level game. It is not on a large strategic scale where one could expect to influence something as large as was WWII. There could be 2 to 5 corps just in one army, and 2 to 5 armies in an army group, so you are criticizing a game for not allowing less than 10% of a nation's wehrmacht to win victory in a place like the Eastern Front for the other 90%. When one is the commander of just one corps, there is a limit to the expected effect you would have.
There was one theater where one corps could be decisive in WWII, and that was North Africa. Some of us are eagerly awaiting a North African campaign for just this reason. In the meantime I would suggest playing DMP's excellent mod on this very subject if you would like the chance to change history.



Tomokatu -> RE: Decisive victories get you no where! (3/29/2012 12:58:16 AM)

Or play WWII:Time of Wrath where your units of manoeuvre are corps (Axis) or Armies (USSR).
That way you can play Eastfront, Westfront, Northafrika, seawar Mediterranean or Atlantic and your decisions and successes will DEFINITELY have an effect on the outcome of the whole war.

Please note; Pacific and Spacewar NOT included.



RPKUPK -> Decisive victories: LET'S HEAR FROM GAME DESIGNERS! (4/4/2012 5:26:58 PM)

I respect other players view on the "decisive victories get you no where" issue, but I'd like to hear from the game designers!
Indeed, battles fought in this game, though they appear to be at a merely operational level, are actually at a strategic level. Stalingrad, according to war historians, was the battle that decided Germany would not win the war in the east. Kursk was the battle that decided that Germany would lose the war in the east and thus WWII. So for me to maintain interest in buying expansion modules or to recommend buying Panzer Corps at all, to a friend, I would want some campaign path that includes "what if" scenarios. To me, going through 7 expansion modules with decisive victories is an exercise in frustration. I'd rather read a book.



nikivdd -> RE: Decisive victories get you no where! (4/4/2012 8:50:06 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RPKUPK

No matter how well you do in the campaign expansion scenarios--and I have played through them all including '43--despite decisive victories and a steadily increasing core (by number and experience and medals) the campaign cycles through all the battles and nothing but worse news is reported, that the war is being lost. Now in reality, I guess, there were stellar commanders who did well most of the time yet fronts collapsed and wars were lost. Is that what Panzer Corps is--a fighting retreat--despite a long string of decisive victories that lead inevitably to losing the war? Is there a major flaw in the game's design? Or, will I just get the trite answer--the Germans lost the war. What happened to WHAT IF?


The DLC's try to follow a historical path with no room for what if scenarios.



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