Escorts and frigates (Full Version)

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zenkmander -> Escorts and frigates (3/30/2012 11:28:08 PM)

Just out of curiosity, what are your thoughts on non-fleet escorts and frigates? I usually set up several small fleets and put them on defense posture to watch over mining stations and whatnot. Should I still be building non-fleet automated military ships? It seems like a waste of money and resources in that kind of situation. What would these other ships accomplish exactly? Escorts in particular seem to be of little use since the ships they escort are likely to escape successfully anyway. And are there any uses for escorts in fleets? I suppose they can act as cannon fodder, but wouldn't the AI target the stronger ships first and thus negate the escorts?



Dracus -> RE: Escorts and frigates (3/31/2012 1:25:59 AM)

They help clean up that rogue slug that attempts to attack the ship they are protecting. They can be a pain to manage during wars though, since they sometimes like to follow enemy ships home. I build a few to keep eyes on things and to occupy pirates until my fleet arrives.



Shadow Tiger -> RE: Escorts and frigates (3/31/2012 2:20:21 AM)

The only ships I've used escorts to protect are constructors. And then I tend to fleet 2 or 3 together. Unfortunately once they fight off a pirate ship they no longer escort the ship.



Theluin -> RE: Escorts and frigates (3/31/2012 2:13:00 PM)

I use escorts a lot but they are only effective while automated if used in great numbers (I tend to stick to 10 per colony but no lees than 300) [:)]



Fishers of Men -> RE: Escorts and frigates (3/31/2012 3:25:55 PM)

Like Shadow Tiger, I use Frigates and Escorts to escort Construction Ships on their missions. There could be space creatures hidden around a star system and these guys take care of them. Since one of the latest patches added the escape feature for Construction Ships, they most times don't need protection. Also, when you are building a mining base in another empire's territory(with their permission), the escorts might cause the other empire to get angry and ask you to remove your military ships. You could lose diplomatic points with them. A lone Construction Ship with no weapons would not create this problem.



Shark7 -> RE: Escorts and frigates (3/31/2012 4:27:59 PM)

Frigates and escorts make up the bulk of my forces and are left to the AI. Destroyers and larger are formed into the fleets that I take control of.



WoodMan -> RE: Escorts and frigates (4/1/2012 1:56:17 AM)

Same as Shark. I use Destroyers and upwards in fleets which I control (or leave automated in defence until I need to control them) and I build frigates and escorts and let them fly around on auto. I actually wonder if it is worth it though... but if you can afford it, why not? [:D]



Sithuk -> RE: Escorts and frigates (4/1/2012 9:20:51 AM)

I don't build escorts and frigates. I stick to Destroyer and larger. I have 3 or 4 large fleets I control mid-game for conquest. I group 4 to 5 destroyers into a fleet and use the automated fleet defence zones for pirate control.

quote:

ORIGINAL: WoodMan

Same as Shark. I use Destroyers and upwards in fleets which I control (or leave automated in defence until I need to control them) and I build frigates and escorts and let them fly around on auto. I actually wonder if it is worth it though... but if you can afford it, why not? [:D]




Blueberry -> RE: Escorts and frigates (4/2/2012 8:13:25 AM)

The number of options that DW offers to create and manage military is indeed quite admirable. Personally, in my years of DW gaming, I have never ever used escorts or frigates. Early on its destroyers. Then it's just cruisers and capital ships. Prefer to micromanage my fleets. Set those to defends certain sectors ensuring that the empire's entire territory is very well covered, and all major points of interest secured.

Escorts and frigates seem useless to me. Reasonably armed mining stations and a defense fleet parked nearby patrolling the sector is good enough. As for all the civilian ships, nothing that can't be replaced. If a lose a ship or two due to some aggresive AI behavior then so be it. A minor annoyance. Quality over quantity with regard to military strategy and tactics. Of course, as I try to note in all the posts, this is a matter of personal preference and something that works great with my style of gaming. Again, DW should be admired for the fact that it also offers fully automated escort services. [;)]

...nice



Sithuk -> RE: Escorts and frigates (4/2/2012 6:21:27 PM)

Blueberry: sadly the AI builds lots of escorts and frigates and wastes fuel and maintenance flying them around after the civilian sector when it should be concentrating its forces into defence fleets with zones of patrol.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Blueberry

The number of options that DW offers to create and manage military is indeed quite admirable. Personally, in my years of DW gaming, I have never ever used escorts or frigates. Early on its destroyers. Then it's just cruisers and capital ships. Prefer to micromanage my fleets. Set those to defends certain sectors ensuring that the empire's entire territory is very well covered, and all major points of interest secured.

Escorts and frigates seem useless to me. Reasonably armed mining stations and a defense fleet parked nearby patrolling the sector is good enough. As for all the civilian ships, nothing that can't be replaced. If a lose a ship or two due to some aggresive AI behavior then so be it. A minor annoyance. Quality over quantity with regard to military strategy and tactics. Of course, as I try to note in all the posts, this is a matter of personal preference and something that works great with my style of gaming. Again, DW should be admired for the fact that it also offers fully automated escort services. [;)]

...nice




ASHBERY76 -> RE: Escorts and frigates (4/2/2012 6:47:57 PM)

You can easily mod force levels in the A.I policy settings.I also made sure every race had the higher military construction in the policy settting too.

MilitaryConstructionLevel ;2
ConstructionMilitaryCapitalShip ;9
ConstructionMilitaryCarrier ;4
ConstructionMilitaryCruiser ;20
ConstructionMilitaryDestroyer ;27
ConstructionMilitaryEscort ;14
ConstructionMilitaryFrigate ;18
ConstructionMilitaryTroopTransport ;8



Jerkface -> RE: Escorts and frigates (4/5/2012 5:04:36 PM)

I spam escorts to deal with pirates. I make larger escorts and pretty much don't use frigates. I create large numbers of small fleets of 2-3 destroyers for system protection, raiding during wartime or pirate base busting. I build larger fleets of cruisers/carriers and capitol ships for war time.



farflamex -> RE: Escorts and frigates (5/11/2012 10:52:07 PM)

I'm struggling a bit with escorts too. I agree with the theory that they're probably a bit pointless and once my mining vessels have a bit of defence, you don't really need them. But I like to have an escort floating around each system with mining bases, just for backup. Thing is, the only way I can get them to behave themselves is to put each one in it's own mini-fleet and set the correct posture (i.e defend the system). Problem there is, I end up with loads of fleets cluttering up my list, plus they're not very well automated (i.e they won't go and refuel themselves). Is there a happy medium here? Building lots and leaving them on auto is an idea, but I hate the idea of having the AI do too much for me and they turn up after the battle is over most of the time anyway. Is there a way to have a single ship patrol a station, but occasionally refuel and repair itself.... then come back to the station and continue that mission.... without being in a fleet? I know this is unlikely, but it would satisfy my need to feel in control of every last vessel [:D]



jpwrunyan -> RE: Escorts and frigates (5/17/2012 8:59:17 AM)

I build escorts... Just for laughs.

Seriously, I wish there was more of a need for them but I have found that fleets are easier to manage. Time to re-introduce pirates??



ceyan -> RE: Escorts and frigates (5/17/2012 3:39:56 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jpwrunyan

I build escorts... Just for laughs.

Seriously, I wish there was more of a need for them but I have found that fleets are easier to manage. Time to re-introduce pirates??


If you don't use pirates their is basically no need to use escorts/frigates unless you want an extra ship class to design for your fleets.



Fishman -> RE: Escorts and frigates (6/1/2012 11:43:37 AM)

Unless things have changed since the last time I played, building frigates and escorts just to deal with pirates is entirely counterproductive, since pirates get your designs for free. Thus, you lose again, because your ship doesn't actually outclass the pirates anymore. What's more, the thing you were escorting has decided to do a moronic rabbitrun instead of simply ignoring the little pests, and now won't be making a delivery...so I don't bother equipping them with shields or armor, either. Just let 'em blow up. At least then they'll finally update to the new version when they have to buy a new ship. Plus, making them buy a new ship makes me money.

So basically, I just don't ever build frigates/escorts/destroyers/cruisers. I build armed dropships and capitals only. I don't really use carriers, because with fighters having a pitiful speed of a mere 130, my ships go faster than they do! Besides, the arbitrary space requirements of carriers renders them largely unusable: After you've tossed in the required 50% engines and turning on top of the 40% fighter bays, there's just nothing left for even basic things like "Reactors", "Fuel", "Shields", "Armor", or "Weapons".



MartialDoctor -> RE: Escorts and frigates (6/1/2012 12:00:55 PM)

I rarely use escorts and frigates in non-fleets since, as the OP mentioned, they are not very useful. I will build some only when I have excess money. I use mostly fleets to defend as some others have posted.



Fishman -> RE: Escorts and frigates (6/1/2012 12:11:41 PM)

Well, how "useful" they are depends on how well designed they are, although the fact that the AI flies them about aimlessly doesn't really help. The problem is that designing a "good" frigate, unless this has been changed since I played, is shooting yourself in the foot. Pirate ships are based on the designs people, including you, have made. So if you make a good frigate/escort, all the pirates have them now, which means you've just wasted your entire effort. The only reason to make good frigate/escorts is if you WANT the pirates to have them, because you buy all the pirates, creating psycho-pirates armed to the teeth top-end warships that ravage and destroy everything in their path. Then you'll discover they refuse to use YOURS and instead use some ****can ship built by the AI. It always works out exactly the way you don't want it to.



Bleek -> RE: Escorts and frigates (7/24/2012 2:09:49 PM)

Agreed Fishman, I have fast attack and long range Frigates that can tare through enemy groups or do deep strikes without heavy loss. I love Frigates!



Wild_Bill -> RE: Escorts and frigates (8/5/2012 5:38:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bleek

Agreed Fishman, I have fast attack and long range Frigates that can tare through enemy groups or do deep strikes without heavy loss. I love Frigates!


It sounds like you have two separate designs for Frigates, a fast attack and a long range. If this is correct, how do you manage to keep one design from dominating when the AI constructs them?

EDIT: I found out how it's done. You go in to the 'non-obsolete designs' category and modify the original design. You change the ship-class name (to Frigate LR or Frigate FA). Then in the construction screen you have the option of choosing which version of Frigate (or other class) to produce.



Lex Talionias -> RE: Escorts and frigates (8/17/2012 3:10:58 PM)

I just started playing an I have found escorts to be a fairly good option.

they deal with pirates easy enough and let me send of my actual fleets without really worrying about leaving my home systems completely undefended.
true... they are weak but their cost is so low I don't really notice it.
true... an enemy raid can take out 10 of them like its nothing but I just que up another 10 to replace them. Letting my escorts harass enemy ships gives me more time to get my fleet there and stops anything IMPORTANT or EXPENSIVE from getting trashed.

ALL of my escorts are just set to AI control, its kinda fun to watch them fly about.



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