Command Capacity costs of broken down corps (Full Version)

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Seminole -> Command Capacity costs of broken down corps (4/8/2012 4:24:16 AM)

3rd Tank Army has 6 units attached.
2 Tank Corps = 8
1 Mech Corps = 4
3 Tank Bde = 3
Command Cost = 15

If I break down the Mech Corps into brigades my command cost jumps to 23.

It's as if each brigade from the mech corps costs 4 CP instead of 1.
Is command cost of a Corp supposed to triple for the Soviets when units break down? With the new lower Army CP caps they couldn't break down 2 corps without exceeding command capacity considerably, yet they could manage 3 times as many brigades as those 2 corps represent without penalty.

Is this working as designed?



elmo3 -> RE: Command Capacity costs of broken down corps (4/8/2012 11:47:35 AM)

I'll check but that does not sound right. Can you attach a zipped save before you do the breakdown?



Seminole -> RE: Command Capacity costs of broken down corps (4/8/2012 3:23:19 PM)

I activated the two Tank Corps attached to 3rd Tank Army (located in Tula) and they exhibit the same cost bug when broken down.

Checked breaking down a Guards Rifle Corps (Stalingrad M.D.) and total cost changed from 4 to 6, so that part seems fine.



elmo3 -> RE: Command Capacity costs of broken down corps (4/8/2012 4:52:50 PM)

OK, got the file and will take a look. Thanks.



Denniss -> RE: Command Capacity costs of broken down corps (4/8/2012 5:43:09 PM)

You could also use the 1944 campaign to test this as it's reproducible there as well.



Joel Billings -> RE: Command Capacity costs of broken down corps (4/8/2012 7:41:39 PM)

Sounds like a bug to me. I wonder if this is new or if it has been around for awhile and just never noticed before. Good catch.



elmo3 -> RE: Command Capacity costs of broken down corps (4/8/2012 8:50:38 PM)

Added as BG0056.



mmarquo -> RE: Command Capacity costs of broken down corps (4/12/2012 4:30:53 AM)

This has been around for quite some time; it also affects the Axis: if you breakdown divisions to regiments, the command cost rises.



Joel Billings -> RE: Command Capacity costs of broken down corps (4/12/2012 6:47:06 AM)

Regiments always cost 1 and divisions 2, so it's normal for a broken down division to cost 50% more. The broken down tank and mech corps being so much more doesn't seem right. I just checked and it's been this way since release. The manual says regiments/brigades should be 1, so something is off. Based on how other things work, I'd expect these broken down tank/mech corps units would cost 1 or 2 each, but not 4. The only reason to think it should be 4 is if we wanted to make it harder for the Soviets to split their corps units and have them move independently.



Denniss -> RE: Command Capacity costs of broken down corps (4/12/2012 7:47:16 AM)

The broken-down units of a corps should cost at minimum 2, just like a division. At least the tank corps partial units are way bigger than their standalone brigade counterparts.

BTW the bug with AP gains by breaking down units with attached subunits is still present (1944 campaign, break down some units in the Smolensk area). What could be accounted as a related bug is the subunit transfer to the higher HQ instead of assigning it to one of the partial units.



Joel Billings -> RE: Command Capacity costs of broken down corps (4/13/2012 5:20:28 PM)

This was in the original readme:

1. Section 7.5.2 - Admin points are added when support unit is sent back to the higher HQ in case of unit break down (Soviet corps to divisions that can't have support units attached - 1 AP per unit sent back).

Now what's interesting is that the broken down Tank and Mech corps sub units are treated as if they are corps sized units (see the CR screen and filter for size of unit). This is no doubt why they cost 4 CP, and why they are allowed to have attached support units, even though they are listed as a brigade. I will have to ask Pavel if he intended for them to be able to have a support unit attached. If so, then there is no reason for the support unit's to be sent back to the HQ when the Corps is broken down (but when they are sent back as they are now, you should get 1 AP back). This may be a case where in order to get the CP to be less than 4, they need to be treated as either a brigade or division, in which case they would not be able to have a support unit attached. Lee, this item should go on the bug list to sort out exactly how the broken down Soviet Tank/Mech corps units should be treated.



marty_01 -> RE: Command Capacity costs of broken down corps (4/13/2012 6:22:49 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

This was in the original readme:

1. Section 7.5.2 - Admin points are added when support unit is sent back to the higher HQ in case of unit break down (Soviet corps to divisions that can't have support units attached - 1 AP per unit sent back).

Now what's interesting is that the broken down Tank and Mech corps sub units are treated as if they are corps sized units (see the CR screen and filter for size of unit). This is no doubt why they cost 4 CP, and why they are allowed to have attached support units, even though they are listed as a brigade. I will have to ask Pavel if he intended for them to be able to have a support unit attached. If so, then there is no reason for the support unit's to be sent back to the HQ when the Corps is broken down (but when they are sent back as they are now, you should get 1 AP back). This may be a case where in order to get the CP to be less than 4, they need to be treated as either a brigade or division, in which case they would not be able to have a support unit attached. Lee, this item should go on the bug list to sort out exactly how the broken down Soviet Tank/Mech corps units should be treated.


As I recall, German regimental breakdowns can also have 1 support unit attached. However, I don't recall off-hand if you as a player can actually attach a support unit to a regimental break-down; or if the SU attachments are are restricted to the AI automatically distributing support units within the division at the moment of break-down to it's various organic regiments.

I'm also curious now if a SU can be attached to the various independent German regiments and brigades. For example can a Pioneer battalion be attached to the Gross Deutchland Regiment, or to the like?



glvaca -> RE: Command Capacity costs of broken down corps (4/22/2012 5:04:41 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

This was in the original readme:

1. Section 7.5.2 - Admin points are added when support unit is sent back to the higher HQ in case of unit break down (Soviet corps to divisions that can't have support units attached - 1 AP per unit sent back).

Now what's interesting is that the broken down Tank and Mech corps sub units are treated as if they are corps sized units (see the CR screen and filter for size of unit). This is no doubt why they cost 4 CP, and why they are allowed to have attached support units, even though they are listed as a brigade. I will have to ask Pavel if he intended for them to be able to have a support unit attached. If so, then there is no reason for the support unit's to be sent back to the HQ when the Corps is broken down (but when they are sent back as they are now, you should get 1 AP back). This may be a case where in order to get the CP to be less than 4, they need to be treated as either a brigade or division, in which case they would not be able to have a support unit attached. Lee, this item should go on the bug list to sort out exactly how the broken down Soviet Tank/Mech corps units should be treated.


Perhaps related to this, I4ve just noticed that Cav Corps, when broken down lose their SU attachments. I thought somewhere in the manual it says that each Cav Div should get one SU. I do get 1AP per SU back when the breakdown occures.



elmo3 -> RE: Command Capacity costs of broken down corps (4/22/2012 12:31:31 PM)

I can't find anything in the manual about Soviet Cav Div's being allowed to have attached SU's.

I did find this in 7.5.2:

quote:

Note that Soviet Corps combat units, such as Rifle and Cavalry Corps, that were built up from divisions will have any attached support units re-assigned and be unable to attach any support units while the unit is broken down into divisions.



glvaca -> RE: Command Capacity costs of broken down corps (4/22/2012 12:32:35 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: elmo3

I can't find anything in the manual about Soviet Cav Div's being allowed to have attached SU's.

I did find this in 7.5.2:

quote:

Note that Soviet Corps combat units, such as Rifle and Cavalry Corps, that were built up from divisions will have any attached support units re-assigned and be unable to attach any support units while the unit is broken down into divisions.



Ok, thanks, must have remembered wrongly [:)]



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