RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A)

RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (Full Version)

All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> After Action Reports

Message

Canoerebel -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (4/12/2012 8:28:38 PM)
I wonder how much of a role my unintentional misdirection with Force Z played?

Crackaces -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (4/12/2012 8:52:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Canoerebel I wonder how much of a role my unintentional misdirection with Force Z played? You sure fooled me Canoerebel!! [;)] My Kings Indian Defense Comment was referring to a Black opening in chess where black develops the bishop and knight along the kings rook diagonal line and when the knight moves to attack the center the bishop is also exposed to attack the center. Typically black goes from a defensive postiion reacting to white's moves to attacking white in one swiift move dictating the action from that point on .. in symbolism that is what I was thinking .. a move to dictate action ... As it is .. the IJ are just probably stunned!! [:D]

Cribtop -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (4/12/2012 11:06:46 PM)
Perhaps we can call this the "Oopsie Kings Indian Defense Gambit?" Sometimes throwing a dart at the board in a room full of 10,000 monkeys and 10,000 typewriters produces something that sticks to the wall, eh? [:D]

BBfanboy -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (4/13/2012 12:01:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Canoerebel 12/8/42 (The What Happened portion to be followed later by the What Next portion) Pearl Harbor: The KB backs off, which is very nice, but several Allied combat TFs get hung out in no-man's-land. I think I lost six DDs trying for a mid-ocean intercept. The KB is retiring to the WNW. CenPac: Somehow, one of my CV TFs was found by a Japnese CV near Johnson Island. The Japanese launched a raid of some 20 Zeroes and 20 Kates. The CAP performed well and there were no hits. Yikes! Shazaam! I need to think things through a bit - is this part of the KB (detached prior to Pearl - or can the IJ player use the "turn one warp speed" to somehow get a Mini KB out that far? I want to see if Lex and Ent are close enough to combine so that they can handle the threat from wherever and whatever source it turns out to be. It's not the main KB, though, because that's far, far away to the NNW and won't be a factor. Could it be that KB was split into two segments and is moving to hunt Enterprise and Lexington - one section going west or WSW or Pearl Harbour and the other you observed heading toward Midway and the AOs? I don't think Mini KB gets to move at warp speed - it ends up west of Luzon, close to where it started on the South China Sea. CVL Ryujo does start at Babeldoab and could have made a dash east but not sure how close to Johnston Island she would get. Two days of high speed?? If you shot down a lot of her fighters she should be easy to hunt down. SoPac: The Japanese take Nauru Island (I have a couple of USN cruisers closing on Tarawa, so I want to see if there's a chance to strike). Of course, watch for Ryujo if it runs back that way after the missed attack on Enterprise. Eastern DEI: Lots of shipping seems to be coming down from Babeldaob. I think a Mini KB is somewhere south of Davao, so I need to evaluate the threat level and opportunities to strike. A big decision to come - do I use the Dutch and RN combat ships to contest the major incursion over in the South China Sea or do I send some to protect Ambon and Timor? I need to see the file to evaluate. Force Z: A major victory as the Allies claim their fist enemy capital ship. The CL Maurtius TF tangled with a Japanese TF consisting of CA Chokai and a DD. Mauritius managed to set Chokai afire and the other Allied ships sank the escorting DD. Chokai then sank a Dutch minelayer. Then Force Z came in and sank Chokai, which managed to first sink DD Tenedos. Getting 5% of the Japanese heavy cruiser fleet on day two of the war is big news. Borneo: An IJ naval guard unit landed at Kuching, but it might not be enough to take the base. I'm going to air transport reinforcements in hopes of slowing Steve a bit. I have several CL/DD TFs near Billiton plus Force Z should be relatively close. Should they be committed to Kuching? I'm sure Kongo and friends are waiting and there is also a small enemy carrier there. I'll have to evaluate when I get the file. Malaya: The Japanese take Khota Bharu. This usually begins the sequence where I end up with several units hung up and unable to retire to Singapore. I may call in the Philippine B-17s to slow down the enemy advance. I like Georgetown as the best place to hole up the cut-off units. It has a decent size port and airfield from which you may be able to extract cadres by float plane or APD. Allied Subs: A K-Class sub hits a troop xAK near Soc Trang. American subs launched at some enemy DDs but missed. Thus far, the "good USN torps" feature hasn't paid a dividend, though I bet Steve has had to modify his conduct just a bit. I just started a new Scenario 1 game and looked at the sub commanders at Manila. A few are really good but a large percent just suck for aggression and naval skills. Apparantly there is an undisclosed skill in this game that got them their captain's command. I think it is called sucking up. At any rate, missed attacks add to experience so all is not lost, but with working torps I'd invest the PP to pick good commanders for all the subs.

Canoerebel -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (4/13/2012 5:07:39 PM)
12/8/42 (What Next Portion) KB: it seems that at least two IJN fleet carriers launched against Enterprise, though the mouseover of the IJ TF shows a heckuva lot of aircraft in the TF (59 F 194 B 10 A). It's not the full KB, because other Japanese fleet carriers launched decent strikes against the USN DDs NW of Pearl. I'm confused and a little uncertain. I think the main KB strike vs. Pearl came from the NW, but here are at least two fleet carriers in a much different position. I'm also surprised if Steve would actually go hunting for Ent or Lex using the "godlike knowledge" of force dispposition that we have in the game. This stiike might have been accidental, but it's unlikely. US Carriers: Anyhow, the Japanese lost something like 15 Kates in the strike, so if this force is just two fleet carriers, Steve may pull back. Ent is ordered to steam south, where Lex is to rendezvous with her. The Japanese launched at a range of 8, so Steve may try to orchestrate another such strike. I dunno. CenPac: CA Indianapolis is in good position to hit Japanese shipping at Nauru should it stick around another night. Eastern DEI: SigInt report a Japanese BB heading for Ambon and an enemy ground unit on a Maru bound for Koepang. The Allies will detail a sizeable force to counter this deep penetration - Force Z, which still has plenty of ammo, will move from just north of Batavia over to Soerabaja. Houston, Boise and a mishmash of DDs and a Dutch CL will rendezvous at Makassar. Western DEI: Lots of IJ shipping around Kuching. This is a serious incursion, too, but I don't think the Allies can do anything effective against a powerful force. I'm leaving a TF of several CL and some DDs in the vicinity just incase. Philippines: Most of the Manila shipping did manage to depart the harbor and disperse into the islands to the south. From there they break in several directions, so Steve has to "round up a bunch of cats," as John III likes to say. China: The Japanese are on the move here too. I'll trying to form my usual MLR - Nanning/Kweiling/Changsha/Chengte on the south, with Sian and the forests to the east and northeast (true) to the north (with efforts to slow and maybe block the Japanese around Chengchow and Singyang. If the Chinese can get into bases with forts or into good terrain hexes, they seem to do okay. I don't want to lose Sian, Chengte, or the Changsha/Kweilin complex.

crsutton -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (4/13/2012 7:16:01 PM)
Canoe, people are saying horrible things about you on the main forum. You had better step in and put a stop to it.....[;)]

John 3rd -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (4/13/2012 7:48:07 PM)
I've tried to defend your tarnished HONOR Sir! NOT...

zuluhour -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (4/13/2012 8:01:16 PM)
quote: I think it is called sucking up. Seems to be the most prevelent skill in most vocations. It was nice to see Force Z hit hard and fast in a campaign start, I hope it can egress unharmed. ps. The 66th Chinese Corp has proven to be my fire brigade in '42. Use the formation, it has zen.

Mundy -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (4/13/2012 8:40:50 PM)
I think Force Z can pretty much handle anything on the surface, provided the auto-play on Dec 7 (if using it) doesn't kill them. I've always felt honor bound (with Churchill pounding on the table...) to send them in a raid to the nearest landing site. As often as not they'll dish it out, and the Kongos don't fare well against them. In one of my old PBEMs, PoW sunk Haruna without a scratch, though Repulse wasn't as lucky. Ed-

Keifer -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (4/13/2012 9:20:00 PM)
You definitely need to replace most of the US Sub Commanders. They have terrible aggression. This was actually true according to Clay Blair. I always spend the PP's even with realistic USN torpedoes. Sometimes they get explode and aggressive sub commanders will surface and fight it out with an AK.

Keifer -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (4/13/2012 9:21:09 PM)
Another good use of PP's if you want to delay the fall of singers is to replace the commanders of the 9 & 11 Indian Divs, once you've recombined. Their stock generals are terrible.

Canoerebel -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (4/13/2012 9:34:52 PM)
PPs are just life-blood for the Allies. I have to be very careful. I have two major needs early on, with two even more pressing - but not as major - needs that trigger me to make purchases: 1. The first of the two major needs are replacing Chinese unit commanders when their units face a key battle. It may be weeks or months before such a battle takes place, but I had better have the necessary PP to make the purchases when the time comes. 2. There are a variety of changes that need to be made in the DEI region early in the war - buying restricted units in the Philippines and Malaya to get them where they need to go; also, replacing poor units commanders (as pointed out by someone just above). Even replacing Percival can be important, but to do so requires 150 PP! Among the pressing minor needs is replacing substandard skippers of US subs. I've already changed quite a few. I also changed out some poor commanders of the BBs damaged at Pearl, hoping that will help them stabalize things (I am sending three moderately damaged BBs to the port adjacent to Pearl, just in case Steve decides to return and strike again). Another pressing early need is buying some of the USA restricted troops to garrison some of the Aluetian, some of the Hawaiian, and some of the SoPac islands.

obvert -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (4/13/2012 9:41:13 PM)
Is Hawaiian garrison really important? Wouldn't you welcome a try for an invasion there?

Canoerebel -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (4/13/2012 9:50:43 PM)
I'm not sure yet. Hawaii is lower on my priority list than the Aluetians and SoPac at the moment. Heck, I've even taken steps to reposition my west coast units - ground and fighter - to various bases. I want to be safe in case Steve tries soemthing really bold like (a) a carrier strike on a major US port; or (2) seziing a Canadian base to then do some strategic bombing on key American bases. Shoot, I'm even gonna garrison interior cities (Salt Lake City) that have vulnerable industrial capacity, and all aircraft factories will get decent fighter protection.

obvert -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (4/13/2012 10:08:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Canoerebel I'm not sure yet. Hawaii is lower on my priority list than the Aluetians and SoPac at the moment. Heck, I've even taken steps to reposition my west coast units - ground and fighter - to various bases. I want to be safe in case Steve tries soemthing really bold like (a) a carrier strike on a major US port; or (2) seziing a Canadian base to then do some strategic bombing on key American bases. Shoot, I'm even gonna garrison interior cities (Salt Lake City) that have vulnerable industrial capacity, and all aircraft factories will get decent fighter protection. That's very realistic. [:)] Playing Japan I thought for a moment about Hawaii, and then I just realized that a prudent player wouldn't even consider an operation like that. Too much fuel for too little gain. I did actually consider (loosely) the West coast, thinking about ruining the industry. But LA is probably the only worthy target. I can't imagine hiding that kind of an invasion force all of the way across the Pacific against the Allies. It would be many divisions and that would mean around 100 ships. Something like GJs invasion of the Kuriles and Hokkaido except moving through multiple search areas of PBYs. I'd love to see someone try it, but I don't think it could be done against even marginal play.

Crackaces -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (4/13/2012 10:32:04 PM)
I believe FatR in BigRed's AAR captured the HI in scenario #2 ,.. all went the other way in '44 ..

Cribtop -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (4/14/2012 5:33:51 AM)
Keifer, I'm digging your "Midway fanboy" sig art. I played that game many times in my youth. [&o]

BBfanboy -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (4/14/2012 6:37:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Canoerebel 12/8/42 (What Next Portion) KB: it seems that at least two IJN fleet carriers launched against Enterprise, though the mouseover of the IJ TF shows a heckuva lot of aircraft in the TF (59 F 194 B 10 A). It's not the full KB, because other Japanese fleet carriers launched decent strikes against the USN DDs NW of Pearl. I'm confused and a little uncertain. I think the main KB strike vs. Pearl came from the NW, but here are at least two fleet carriers in a much different position. I'm also surprised if Steve would actually go hunting for Ent or Lex using the "godlike knowledge" of force dispposition that we have in the game. This stiike might have been accidental, but it's unlikely. Those numbers could correspond to CVL Ryujo combined with CSs Chitose and Chiyoda. They carry lots of float planes and can launch them at sea. I imagine the mouseover would show them as fighters and bombers rather than aux. I think the seaplanes are fairly short range 4 and 6 hexes depending on the type. Your two carriers could take them. US Carriers: Anyhow, the Japanese lost something like 15 Kates in the strike, so if this force is just two fleet carriers, Steve may pull back. Ent is ordered to steam south, where Lex is to rendezvous with her. The Japanese launched at a range of 8, so Steve may try to orchestrate another such strike. I dunno. CenPac: CA Indianapolis is in good position to hit Japanese shipping at Nauru should it stick around another night. Eastern DEI: SigInt report a Japanese BB heading for Ambon and an enemy ground unit on a Maru bound for Koepang. The Allies will detail a sizeable force to counter this deep penetration - Force Z, which still has plenty of ammo, will move from just north of Batavia over to Soerabaja. Houston, Boise and a mishmash of DDs and a Dutch CL will rendezvous at Makassar. Contrary to the experience of others with Force Z , I did not find them all that effective in night action against Nagato and Hyuga. The Japanese sighted the British first and surprised them, then scored major caliber hit after hit, all of which penetrated. PoW and Repulse got only a couple of hits and did not penetrate Nagato's armour even at close range. In other campaigns I have tried to use Force Z in daytime actions or where there are no enemy BBs with better success. Both capital ships seem to be torpedo magnets ... [:(] Philippines: Most of the Manila shipping did manage to depart the harbor and disperse into the islands to the south. From there they break in several directions, so Steve has to "round up a bunch of cats," as John III likes to say. This tends to confirm that Ryujo was not parked east of Mindanao as the AI places it to catch refugees from Manila. Not sure where Zuiho/Shoho could have been sent from South China Sea. Seems a long way to where you were attacked.

Canoerebel -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (4/14/2012 4:02:49 PM)
12/9/41 The game has opened fast and furious, but I sure hope things slow down a bit or PH will have the DEI before I can catch my breath... Pacific: The IJN carriers pursued Enterprise but guessed wrong. The IJN CV TF moved east (very fast and very far) while Ent moved SSW and rendezvoued with Lex. Had Steve guessed right, his TF would have caught mine. As it is the KB won't be able to catch Lex and Ent now. I also think the KB is a bit out of position now (part being east of Johnston Island) so that one or both USN CVs can hightail it for the DEI and make it before the KB can. The Ethics in Chasing Lex and Ent: No question now that Steve was intentionally trying for an intercept. I personally don't think that's kosher. I would never do it as an IJ player. This tells me Steve is aggressive and "no hold's barred." I'm watching Mersing to see if he tries something similarly edgy there. (Had I known Steve thought giving chase to the American CVs was acceptable, I would have emptied out Pearl Harbor on the 7th. I daresay he wouldn't have like that.) CenPac: CA Indianapolis catches an IJ transport TF with its pants down at Nauru Island. An xAK, a CM and a PB are roughed up badly. SWPac: It looks like IJ ships are heading for both Rabaul and Lae. I inted to send at least one American CV through the Torres Strait, but doing so will be hazardous (subs) or obvious (if patrols out of Lae should catch wind of this). Eastern DEI: The Japanese are landing at Sorong. No further penetration yet. Several decent Allied combat TFs at Makassar are in position to move quickly. These include CA Houston and CLs Boise and Tromp. Force Z refueled and replenished at Soerabaja. I'll hold here there to see if Steve really pushes for Ambon and Koepang. If not, I may recommit Force Z in the western DEI. Western DEI: The RN CL TF tangles with a powerful Japaese combat TF that includes five heavy cruisers. CA Kumano takes a torp and more than a dozen hits and shows "heavy fires/heavy damage." But she didn't go under and i suspect she isn't mortally stricken. Japanese subs and Mini KB air finish off three CL damaged in the fray. The Allies also lost DD Evertson. Japan took Kuching on a 3:1 shock attack even though the Allies had air transported in reinforcements. This is a bad development. The Allies are air lifting reinforcements to Palembang, but I have a feeling this will be a futile gesture. Dutch subs once again torpedo several xAK in the South China Sea. American Subs: A sub misses a shot a CA Maya at Iba. Thus far, American subs are zero-for-the-war. That's got to change, right? Philippines and Hong Kong: Steve is using multiple small combat TFs (usually two DDs each) to block choke points in the obvious escape routes. He's slain several dozen small transports, but thus far he's missed the sub tenders and other good suff. One of the RN DDs out of Hong Kong is hit by LBA and sinks. Air Wars: Lots of hot and heavy action in the air - especially at Rangoon and Kunming. The AVG got chewed up pretty badly. On the day, Allied losses are about twice as heavy (35 aircraft go down to 17 for Japan). Steve is targeting alot of diverse places - Kunming? Why? - including the Malaya airfields. China: Japan has already attacked two or three weak Chinese units. Steve's moving fast, so I'm under pressure to get my MLR set up.

Crackaces -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (4/14/2012 5:05:34 PM)
There is a risk in chasing down the BigE and LadyLex .. and it looks like Steve will face the consequinces. He spends fuel and time and you get a jump on the race to the DEI. Good always prevails [:D] There are so many places to spend PP's but as everybody mentioned the US submarines have awful commanders to start. Forget the agression part -- the Navy skills are awful. [How did these guys get a command?] Thus I suspect this is where the misses are coming from. It might be worth even more since you have effective torps to replace those commanders ASAP as opposed to some of your other games where this action was not even close to a prirority. Just a thought .. Watching with a keen eye the a southern gentlemen outwiting the IJ [sm=00000436.gif]

Mundy -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (4/14/2012 5:08:15 PM)
I agree there. There's also the urge to start a Stalin-style purge in China, which has turned a few battles for me. Ed-

vettim89 -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (4/14/2012 5:29:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Canoerebel I wonder how much of a role my unintentional misdirection with Force Z played? Well, you know what they say, "Even a blind nut finds a squirrel now and again [:D]

zuluhour -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (4/15/2012 3:19:53 AM)
quote: Steve is targeting alot of diverse places - Kunming? Why? - including the Malaya airfields. I call it recon by fire. I have no idea what the IJ recon assets are, but I'm guessing they are even more paultry then the entire allied CBI theater.

BBfanboy -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (4/15/2012 5:12:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: zuluhour quote: Steve is targeting alot of diverse places - Kunming? Why? - including the Malaya airfields. I call it recon by fire. I have no idea what the IJ recon assets are, but I'm guessing they are even more paultry then the entire allied CBI theater. Japan has lots of recon units. Significant aircraft and their range in hexes: Mavis - 25; Dinah - 14; Babs - 13. All bombers and float planes can also do recon. Kunming has some decent industry and is really THE key to the Burma road, in my opinion. No need to take on Burma if you have Kunming and LOC to the southeast. This also isolates Chungking nicely.

obvert -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (4/15/2012 8:06:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: zuluhour quote: Steve is targeting alot of diverse places - Kunming? Why? - including the Malaya airfields. I call it recon by fire. I have no idea what the IJ recon assets are, but I'm guessing they are even more paultry then the entire allied CBI theater. There are a zillion IJAAF recon planes right from the beginning. And you can split the groups from 12 to 3x4 so you can get even more coverage. No reason to send pilots with 70 exp in 5-6 categories on an unreconned, unescorted mission anywhere.

Encircled -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (4/15/2012 9:39:48 AM)
As a newbie, learnt a shedload from your AAR's, so will read this one with interest!

Miller -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (4/15/2012 10:23:52 AM)
You may know this already Dan, but a good tip for Chinese ground units is not to change their prep target. Once they get to 100 prep you can set them to train and their exp should rise up to 55 and morale up to 99. Much better than the 35/35 they start with! I know you are very adept at building defensive lines in China but a very determined Jap player can prevail if he brings enough troops. You dont have the supply to survive long term, unless you can keep the Burma road open. In my game I managed to capture Chungking in August 43.......and I consider land war the weakest part of my game.........

JocMeister -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (4/15/2012 11:06:30 AM)
I agree with Miller on China. I certainly feel that against a reasonable good player China can simply not be held as the game is right now. I hope you can prove me wrong though! Supply is certainly your main enemy. Unfortunantly that is the one thing you can´t really do much about. If I were you I would start planning and preparing right now for what would happen if you lost China. Since the garrision requirements are pretty laughable for the Japs in China he can certainly move out a lot of units to other location once he is done there.

obvert -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (4/15/2012 1:32:32 PM)
As I've never played the Allies in a PBEM I don't know how well this can work against a person, but against the AI I just shove TF after TF full of supply into Rangoon. I think I might have offloaded 250,000-300,000 supply in the first few months the last time. And eventually I was able to get it to shift north to the mountains and then through. I did lose a good amount of shipping, but it was worth it to get supply in to stave off the first 6 months of Japanese aggression. What is you method and stance on getting supply to China early in the war, CR?

crsutton -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (4/15/2012 6:23:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Canoerebel 12/9/41 The Ethics in Chasing Lex and Ent: No question now that Steve was intentionally trying for an intercept. I personally don't think that's kosher. I would never do it as an IJ player. This tells me Steve is aggressive and "no hold's barred." I'm watching Mersing to see if he tries something similarly edgy there. (Had I known Steve thought giving chase to the American CVs was acceptable, I would have emptied out Pearl Harbor on the 7th. I daresay he wouldn't have like that.) It is really why I insist on playing the historic first turn. Just too many arguments and perceptions about what is OK and not on turn one. I admit that when playing the historic turn, you are pretty much conceding the loss of one or both of the British BBs but in my experience that really does not matter much.

Page: << < prev 1 2 [3] 4 5 next > >>

Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.828125