RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (Full Version)

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JocMeister -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (8/27/2012 7:43:07 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Now if we could just find some killer bunnies for CR to release on his opponent ....



Or a holy handgrenade! [:D]



Encircled -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (8/27/2012 10:21:54 AM)

Its doesn't sound like PZJH to be "obvious".

If you can see the KB and it isn't doing anything, then (based on what he's done so far) you've got to assume that something is going on, especially as that Amphib bonus is still active.

Anyway, whatever it is, it will probably be "just a flesh wound"



Canoerebel -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (8/27/2012 5:23:30 PM)

"What's your favorite color?"

"Blue! ...No, clear!"



CaptDave -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (8/27/2012 8:13:14 PM)

I'm following both sides, so can't say anything about the war. I do want to say, though, how much I'm enjoying the reading. Both players are actually good writers -- unfortunately, that's a rare case. This is a pair of the easiest-to-follow AARs I've ever seen. Keep up the good work!



Canoerebel -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (8/28/2012 3:54:58 AM)

Thanks, CaptDave. Those are very encouraging words.

I'm sittin' around tonight minding my own business, when suddenly "Shazaam!", I think I know what Steve's gonna do.

I think he's coming for India. I think he's going to bring the KB and about six divisions and hit Socatra. Then he'd impose a blockade and try to vanquish India. Under that scenario, he wants to draw my troops forward towards his weak line west of Calcutta.

Operating on that assumption, I'll take a few steps:

1) Two Marine regiments inbound to India from Capetown will halt a few hexes from Socatra. They'll remain there until I know what's going to happen next (mainly with those seven enemy divisions recently at Singapore).

2) 27th/C USA Division arrives at Capetown tomorrow. That unit, too, will remain close to Socatra.

3) I already have two fully-laden minelayer TFs posted near Socatra.

4) All RN and USN ships in the IO will be available for duty.

If my thinking is wrong, there are only two other possibilities I can come up with:

A) Steve commits a large army to Oz to obtain bases from which to engage in a strat bombing campaign. (There's a high likelihood that this is going to occur.)

B) If Steve truly is "going soft" now, he'd devote some of those divisions to take Cocos Island, but otherwise might go on the defensive (unlikely, but not impossible).



Canoerebel -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (8/28/2012 4:17:37 AM)

First thing I'll do tomorrow is check Socatra's troop capacity. If it's 30,000, Steve probably doesn' t have any plans to make an assault. If it's unlimited, that's where my money is.



BBfanboy -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (8/28/2012 5:01:35 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

First thing I'll do tomorrow is check Socatra's troop capacity. If it's 30,000, Steve probably doesn' t have any plans to make an assault. If it's unlimited, that's where my money is.


You could be right - KB may be waiting on some massive amphib force + BB & CA covering forces to arrive.

I have the game open so I'll save you the trouble - "Scoodra" (copyright: Greyjoy) [:D] is unlimited, SPS Port 0, AF 5.
Strangely, although Diego Garcia is called an Atoll, its stacking limit is 60,000.
Addu is an Atoll and 6,000.



Canoerebel -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (8/28/2012 2:40:17 PM)

Thanks, BB, that's helpful information. I should have paid more attention to stacking limits long ago as that can really help put the puzzle together.

Right now, both Cocos and Diego are vulnerable. I have about 275 AV at each, with four forts. Steve can take those down with two divisions at each, in all likelihood.

At Addu, I have part of an Indian division, so Steve can probably take that even with the low stacking limit.

Scoodra/Socatra is a bear with an unlimited stacking limit. I really will have to watch our for a double reverse, where Steve wants me to think "Oz" but comes for India. So I will positioin the three USA infantry units inbound from Capetown just off Socatra just in case they are needed. I also won't get too frisky with my forward units that are gathering near Calcutta, just in case they are needed to the rear.



castor troy -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (8/28/2012 3:49:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Thanks, BB, that's helpful information. I should have paid more attention to stacking limits long ago as that can really help put the puzzle together.

Right now, both Cocos and Diego are vulnerable. I have about 275 AV at each, with four forts. Steve can take those down with two divisions at each, in all likelihood.

At Addu, I have part of an Indian division, so Steve can probably take that even with the low stacking limit.

Scoodra/Socatra is a bear with an unlimited stacking limit. I really will have to watch our for a double reverse, where Steve wants me to think "Oz" but comes for India. So I will positioin the three USA infantry units inbound from Capetown just off Socatra just in case they are needed. I also won't get too frisky with my forward units that are gathering near Calcutta, just in case they are needed to the rear.



I failed to understand in the past and I still don't get it. He is commited in Alaska, in the SRA, in China and he landed several divisions in Eastern India. Ok, now someone please tell me why there should be any threat to Australia? [&:] No hrs or not, being able to move out 4000 av from Manchuria without paying for pp is one thing, but that still doesn't mean he can use dozens of divisions in major theatres outside of China at once.

In my last PBEM that was abandoned after the IJ player had his head handed over, he didn't commit on the whole map and only went for Southern Australia and was still stopped cold and this was a scen 2 game when he landed in Southern Australia within the amphib bonus. So tell me how PJH should be able to do all this at once over a far bigger area? Have played him before and can sure tell that he isn't a magician.



Keifer -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (8/28/2012 4:02:47 PM)

Castor Troy - I think it's that time in the game where the Allied Player naturally fears the worst case in every theater. In about a game month, it should be time to start planning a counter-attack. With Japan so spread out he is vulnerable.



Cap Mandrake -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (8/28/2012 6:05:47 PM)



quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

First thing I'll do tomorrow is check Socatra's troop capacity. If it's 30,000, Steve probably doesn' t have any plans to make an assault. If it's unlimited, that's where my money is.


Bring lots of water bottles.

[image]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8b/Socotra_-Ar%27ar.JPG/800px-Socotra_-Ar%27ar.JPG[/image]



desicat -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (8/28/2012 10:07:31 PM)

quote:

Strangely, although Diego Garcia is called an Atoll, its stacking limit is 60,000.


Having actually been to Diego Garcia I can say with confidence that there is no way 60,000 men could set up a base camp and survive for any period of time. Where in the world did the designers come up with 60,000?

[image]http://www.theprisma.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/diego-garcia4.jpg[/image]



Walloc -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (8/28/2012 10:39:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: desicat
Having actually been to Diego Garcia I can say with confidence that even if the 60,000 men stood side by side in rigid formation there would not be enough land mass (including the shoreline out to waist deep water) to accommodate them all. Where in the world did the designers come up with 60,000?



Diego Garcia has 27.19 square kilometres of dry landmass according to wiki. 1 square kilometer = 1.000.000 square meters. So if each person occupy 1 m2 u can fit way around 1,000,000 *27.19 men or some what beyound 60,000 men. Not to say that one person in a nappy aged battalion column or line would only had consirably less than 1m2 to fit in.

What did u smoke when u visited Desicat? [:'(]

Rasmus

Edit: Blah u changed ur statement, not fair! [;)]



desicat -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (8/28/2012 11:08:50 PM)

quote:

Diego Garcia has 27.19 square kilometres of dry landmass according to wiki. 1 square kilometer = 1.000.000 square meters. So if each person occupy 1 m2 u can fit way around 1,000,000 *27.19 men or some what beyound 60,000 men. Not to say that one person in a nappy aged battalion column or line would only had consirably less than 1m2 to fit in.

What did u smoke when u visited Desicat?

Rasmus

Edit: Blah u changed ur statement, not fair!


Before I saw your comment I decided to take away my exaggeration and edit my original post. I would not want to be one of the 60,000 people assigned if they ever decided to cram them in. Of course the Brits would make a killing on charging for billeting and rations.....



BBfanboy -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (8/29/2012 12:42:53 AM)

My first thought was the obvious - someone accidentally typed an extra zero when they were setting up the database for DG.



Walloc -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (8/29/2012 2:03:02 AM)

Hey CR didnt u an the family go to Yosemite national park this summer?

Kind regards,

Rasmus



Canoerebel -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (8/29/2012 2:58:53 AM)

I apologize to those of you checking in for a game update.  My opponent has totally disappeared.  I'm sure it's work related, but I do wish he'd extend the simple courtesy of emailing, "Hey, no turns for the next xx days."  Or, "Hey, turns very sporadic this week." 

Now, to get some of my writing fix for the day, I'll respond to Walloc's question about Yosemite.

Me and my family of confirmed southerners made our first ever trip to California earlier this year.  We had a blast. We spent six nights in the state - four camping and two in hotels.  We saw some of the great sights:  Death Valley, Sequoia National Park, King's Canyon National Park, Yosemite National Park, Muir Woods National Monument, the Golden Gate Bridge, and San Francisco.

Yosemite is so spectacularly pretty that it's almost hard to believe.  We approached from the south after camping at Wawona Campground.  This may be the best way to approach the main valley as you get the full effect of Bridal Veil Falls, El Capitan and Half Dome.  Just an awesome sight.  Our main activity in the park was a long hike up to Middle Yosemite Falls.

I think my two favorite things in California were Death Valley and the Golden Gate Bridge.  The latter is just spectacular - great examples of mankind doing something majestic and exquisite.  The Statue of Liberty and the Gateway Arch would be two other examples of Americans doing something that is majestic, non tacky, and non commercial.  (Okay, the French did the Statue of Liberty, but you know what I mean.)  Sometimes we use our liberty to really do tacky things (billboards, corporate names for stadiums, and tayloring ballgame schedules to television's whims, for instance).

That's my opinion for today.  Tune back in tomorrow for the next installment of my blog.  [:)]



1EyedJacks -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (8/29/2012 5:31:13 AM)

I'm glad you had a good time in the golden state.

TTFN,

Mike



castor troy -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (8/29/2012 9:06:41 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: desicat

quote:

Strangely, although Diego Garcia is called an Atoll, its stacking limit is 60,000.


Having actually been to Diego Garcia I can say with confidence that there is no way 60,000 men could set up a base camp and survive for any period of time. Where in the world did the designers come up with 60,000?

[image]http://www.theprisma.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/diego-garcia4.jpg[/image]



wow, that's Diego Garcia? Aren't (weren't) there B-52 stationed?



Walloc -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (8/29/2012 9:24:02 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel



Now, to get some of my writing fix for the day, I'll respond to Walloc's question about Yosemite.

Me and my family of confirmed southerners made our first ever trip to California earlier this year.  We had a blast. We spent six nights in the state - four camping and two in hotels.  We saw some of the great sights:  Death Valley, Sequoia National Park, King's Canyon National Park, Yosemite National Park, Muir Woods National Monument, the Golden Gate Bridge, and San Francisco.

Yosemite is so spectacularly pretty that it's almost hard to believe.  We approached from the south after camping at Wawona Campground.  This may be the best way to approach the main valley as you get the full effect of Bridal Veil Falls, El Capitan and Half Dome.  Just an awesome sight.  Our main activity in the park was a long hike up to Middle Yosemite Falls.


Thx CR,

According to danish media and then it surely hasnt been in the US ones. U and ur family needs to be on the outlook for signs of Hansa virus symptoms, apparently the mice there have had it since june. Just a warning.

Kind regards,

Rasmus



JocMeister -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (8/29/2012 9:36:47 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I apologize to those of you checking in for a game update.  My opponent has totally disappeared.  I'm sure it's work related, but I do wish he'd extend the simple courtesy of emailing, "Hey, no turns for the next xx days."  Or, "Hey, turns very sporadic this week." 



Perhaps you should let PHJ know you would appreciate a note when he pulls his disappearing acts? I would think it was common curtsy to let your opponent know if you wern´t able to send the turns as usual. Only takes a minute to jolt down an e-mail...



Walloc -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (8/29/2012 9:38:19 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy


quote:

ORIGINAL: desicat

quote:

Strangely, although Diego Garcia is called an Atoll, its stacking limit is 60,000.


Having actually been to Diego Garcia I can say with confidence that there is no way 60,000 men could set up a base camp and survive for any period of time. Where in the world did the designers come up with 60,000?



wow, that's Diego Garcia? Aren't (weren't) there B-52 stationed?


Well it is the largest atoll in the world according to Wiki. It currently has stationed 4-5000 men there atm, army as civilian, Looking at sat photoes it doesnt seem that crowded. Meaning the men there seems to be in specific areas of the atoll, leaving much of it untouched. Presumably that could change.
If one takes a look at the square kilometers of some of the 6k man in game atolls, well this is several to many times the size. There seems to be some logic in game of square kilometer vs size vs stacking limit. Not that im saying that its necesarrily right.
If u look at the most crowded battles in WWII tho its not much of a direct comparison. Goodwood, Kursk. U could find examples of that many men in that amount of square kilometers. Maybe 30k had been a better choice but it is larger than Tabitua that hold 30k in game. If u look at number of men Japanease crammed at Tarawa and look at size. Logic would dictate that DG would be able to hold significantly more.
I guess one could se the 60k as ok this is reallly max if we crammed it, more than. This is what we think should be there. It is over twice the size of Peleliu and well both sides had a division(+on US side) there.

Playing devils advokate,

Rasmus



Bullwinkle58 -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (8/29/2012 1:48:08 PM)

I too spent five months on DG in the mid-80s. I can confirm there is no way you could station 60,000 men there. The space is very cramped (about .25 miles across at the widest), but the shallow fresh water "lens" under the landmass would never support that kind of drain. When I was there total population on the island was about 4000 and water restrictions were ever present.



witpqs -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (8/29/2012 3:41:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

I too spent five months on DG in the mid-80s. I can confirm there is no way you could station 60,000 men there. The space is very cramped (about .25 miles across at the widest), but the shallow fresh water "lens" under the landmass would never support that kind of drain. When I was there total population on the island was about 4000 and water restrictions were ever present.


On the Babes optional stacking with the extended map it's spec'd at 40,000.

(I'm not saying it's right or wrong, just reading it!)



desicat -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (8/29/2012 10:44:52 PM)

quote:

wow, that's Diego Garcia? Aren't (weren't) there B-52 stationed?


The below is from Wiki (It sounds way bigger than it is):

Following the fall of the Shah of Iran and the Iran Hostage Crisis in 1979–1980, the West became concerned with ensuring the flow of oil from the Persian Gulf through the Strait of Hormuz, and the US received permission for a $400 million expansion of the military facilities on Diego Garcia consisting of two parallel 12,000-foot-long (3,700 m) runways, expansive parking aprons for heavy bombers, 20 new anchorages in the lagoon, a deep water pier, port facilities for the largest naval vessels in the US or British fleet, aircraft hangars, maintenance buildings and an air terminal, a 1,340,000 barrels (213,000 m3) fuel storage area, and billeting and messing facilities for thousands of sailors and support personnel.[26]

[image]http://img.timeinc.net/time/daily/2007/0709/a_postcard_0924.jpg[/image]



CaptDave -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (8/29/2012 10:54:42 PM)

DG would have been my deployment location if we had executed a certain war plan, but we didn't and I never went. Don't think I missed much (Guam was bad enough).

To my knowledge we (the US) have never actually stationed B-52s there. In my time, at least, we used it only as a base for KC-135s to refuel the Buffs flying to and from points east (Darwin for training purposes, but I don't remember what was in the war plan, and I wouldn't mention it if I did since I don't know if it's still classified or not). But that was in Bullwinkle's time, about 27 years ago.



Bullwinkle58 -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (8/29/2012 11:24:27 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: CaptDave

DG would have been my deployment location if we had executed a certain war plan, but we didn't and I never went. Don't think I missed much (Guam was bad enough).

To my knowledge we (the US) have never actually stationed B-52s there. In my time, at least, we used it only as a base for KC-135s to refuel the Buffs flying to and from points east (Darwin for training purposes, but I don't remember what was in the war plan, and I wouldn't mention it if I did since I don't know if it's still classified or not). But that was in Bullwinkle's time, about 27 years ago.


Heavy bombers of several varieties were staged from there in Desert Storm and since. I believe they have built sealed hangars to service the stealth guys, and this has been reported in the press. In my time there the only deployed planes were P-3s, but some F-14s visited, there were daily supply runs to and from the airhead in Oman and out to the battle group by Vikings. There was also a special, large fuel tank in the ramp area for the SR-71's needs.

DG's role changed a lot during and after DS. In the late 70s and the 80s it was a voyage repair point for subs and light skimmers from the IO BG (usually had a tender anchored), a refueling spot, a comm station, an intel collection point for various points to the NW, an ASW hub to service the BG's needs, and the anchorage point for "Carter's" RDF ships. These RDFs were there to hit Iran if needed, and to counter-balance the Soviets while they got their behinds kicked in Afghanistan.



Lipty -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (8/30/2012 6:33:02 AM)

This is my first AAR report read (I finished PH's side last night) and have learned alot about strategies in the game. It has been interesting seeing what you take away from things that I completely ignored because I wasn't sure what it was for or thought it was just game fluff.

You commented that you were in a hurry once and didn't watch a single combat animation and that that was near blasphemous. I watched one the first time and assumed that it was just something to entertain me the first time time you do battle like the opening movie when I installed the game. What are you taking away from it? I assumed it was all shown on the combat report when I review it when the turn is done. Are there particular settings I should be using to get the most out of it ( I also had all times set to zero to speed up the play)?

I started a scene one game as allied a few weeks ago (I abandoned the Japanese one I started because I was so overwhelmed by the complexity of the production system).

Hit a couple of stumbling points such as trying to get MacArthur to board a submarine to get him off the rock. I even tried at gunpoint and that SOB would not get in it. I had also immediately fallen back to Manila and Bataan when the Phillipines were invaded as I assumed those were the places to defend but in your AAR you staunchly defended Clark (do to terrain defenses if I remember correctly).

My carriers are all being repaired in Capetown (except Sara that got torped 5 hexes from Johnson and went down like Titanic with all hands and planes on board). I was very aggressive going after every merchant I could find contrary to your strategy that has hardly had to replenish in 3 months.

Since your conterpart is AWOL and I am already kind of hi-jacking your thread... does it matter when I am re-assigning troops what group I associate them with or can I just safely pick pacific fleet for all?

I have greatly enjoyed the AAR so far and have learned an immense amount (the acronym's still have me scratching my head at times but usually if I keep reading someone will through out enough info to figure what they mean) about strat but I am still struggling with the details of gameplay, but I guess trial by fire (albeit with AI rather than a thinking person).

Thanks for the work putting up this AAR.



Canoerebel -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (8/30/2012 5:15:47 PM)

5/8/42 and 5/9/42

My opponent popped back up late yesterday afternoon. No explanation. No apology. Then he sent an invitation this morning to convert from one- to two-day turns (can you even do that?) on the basis that he's standing down from his offensive phase now, so that not much will be happening. This is all very odd. This is the kind of things I would expect from an opponent who is getting distracted by another game. I wonder if that's it? Anyhow, I'm going to decline the two-day turn offer. I am just beginning to ramp up and it won't be all that long before the Allies are pushing pretty hard. Besides, the situation in China is very delicate and requires micromanagement.

If Steve isn't blowing smoke here and is actually transitioning to the defensive, that's pretty surprising to me. Q-Ball pushed much harder, longer and effectively in the game I played with him a couple of years ago. But Steve may be blowing smoke.

North America: Quiet.

Pacific: Tarawa invasion group is 36 hexes southwest of LA; 81 hexes from Tarawa. Several small advance amphibious groups are alread at or west of Baker Island, including a little TF that will drop off an Army battalion at Ndeni in a few days. A Kiwi brigade is ashore at Noumea, boosting the AV there to 150.

Oz: KB still close to Exmouth, but no imminent sign of a move on Perth.

DEI: The last Allied base (other than Cocos) is Sabang, which Steve should take care of shortly.

India: I'm still puzzling over all the pieces, trying to figure out if Steve might truly resume an offensive (targeting Socatra, as mentioned previously, or expanding west from Calcutta) or if he's really standing down, in which case the situation will stabalize so that the Allies can begin to move forward.

China: Orders issued to evacuate Lanchow due to Japanese troops moving west (true) from Sian. Time to establish the new MLR in the wooded-rough terrain north (true) of Chungking.



BBfanboy -> RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) (8/30/2012 5:27:14 PM)

Hi Lipty - since Canoerebel has not responded yet I will offer my thoughts as someone who was in your shoes not too long ago.
Firstly - I hope you have had a go at some of the shorter scenarios to get the feel for gameplay and how to use all the switches and buttons. There is not as much strategy involved in these scenarios since the situation is pre-defined, but you learn lots about what you can do safely and what is too high a risk.
I recommend doing the Guadalcanal scenario first and then the Marianas: Guadalcanal because it is relatively early in the war when your unit experience levels and equipment are less potent than the Japanese, and Marianas because the situation is reversed. Especially useful was learning how to put together amphibious invasions with all the attendant bombardment, minesweeping, air CAP, ASW and supply support.

About combat animations - if you set the time to 0 for them, you see nothing. The animations themselves are uninspired but the little messages during combat can be valuable. For example, if you had a cruiser/destroyer TF intercept a TF with CV Shokaku and read the subsequent combat report, it might say "Shokaku - 12 hits" but you would have no idea what damage was dealt by those 12 hits , which in turn might leave you in a quandry about whether CV Enterprise should risk an attack next turn. Watching the animation would show whether most of the hits were from your cruiser's 8" guns and whether there was engine damage, electrical damage, etc. or, alternately if the hits were all 5" in caliber and most were on Shokaku's armor belt (i.e. no significant damage).
I have not seen useful messages during air-ground, ground-ground, or sea-ground combat so I set the time for these to 0. Some people watch air-air combat animations and compare the losses with the combat report and the Intelligence report to try figure out what really happened. I don't find it that useful for the amount of work, so I just use the combat and Intelligence report figures. That leaves air-naval and naval-naval (including sub attacks) that I watch with a setting of 1.0 second for messages. It only gets tedious when ships are machine gunning each other at 1000 yards.[>:]

You are doing the right thing by reading the AARs on this forum - lots of wisdom from the experienced players and info on how to do things that aren't documented well in the manual. Lotsa luck with your game.



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