Spying on enemy planets with Fed Ex. (Full Version)

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ASHBERY76 -> Spying on enemy planets with Fed Ex. (4/11/2012 1:00:13 PM)

I propose a change to the present system where freighters and explorer ships can see the whole composition of enemy forces in a system.I very much doubt you local fed ex knows what your exact national army numbers are.Spying should be used for this purpose.



Modest -> RE: Spying on enemy planets with Fed Ex. (4/11/2012 2:33:20 PM)

Well, it is true. Especially with freighters, so I agree.



Litjan -> RE: Spying on enemy planets with Fed Ex. (4/11/2012 4:04:11 PM)

Disagree.

Spying with civilian units happens all the time in real life during peacetime.

In case of war your civilian ships will not fly into enemy systems anymore -> no spying. If they do, they get destroyed, and you can also achieve the very same effect with flying a cheap military ship into that system.




ASHBERY76 -> RE: Spying on enemy planets with Fed Ex. (4/11/2012 4:29:01 PM)

Nonsence.No civilian could estimate planet force levels or space force levels anywhere near 5% let alone 100% and never did in the real world either..

Freighter ships provide constant surveillance and make intel missions like deep cover and operations maps hardly worth the risk.I know what planets to invade without any risk.



feelotraveller -> RE: Spying on enemy planets with Fed Ex. (4/11/2012 6:51:26 PM)

I disagree.

Space force level assessment will always be pretty accurate.  Spaceships are big things and ships have scanners to avoid meteor collisions and so forth.  It may be possible to hide the odd ship in system for a while but really if a ship is spotted in system and not seen to leave (and that's pretty hard to miss) then you know it is still there somewhere.

On the army level you have a better point.  However I regard ships in the system as gaining access to real time information provided by friendly assets and planetary communications in that system.  Armies are hard to hide, more doable than ships in space, but still difficult, particularly with advanced tracking technologies.



Litjan -> RE: Spying on enemy planets with Fed Ex. (4/11/2012 7:00:50 PM)

Nonsence? Ok.

Anyway, I think we do have pretty good estimates of the force levels of pretty much every single nation on earth today, donīt we?

Where their airports are. Where the military bases are. Where their tanks are parked. All this is available as public knowledge.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_People%27s_Army

Is this information coming straight from the CIA? Donīt think so.

I agree that for gameplay reasons it might be more fun to not know what kind of force levels you are up against. And it would make spying more worthwhile, too. But how to implement it? If we put in the proposed changes I would just send in a single cheap troopship first, wait for the initial report of enemies strength and then either call back my invasion fleet (if enemy too strong) or take the planet.

Just another micromanaging step required...

I feel more could be gained by teaching the AI how to properly reinfoce planets under attack by flying in troops from other planets or stacked away in "troop fleets" as I am sure many human players do.




Shark7 -> RE: Spying on enemy planets with Fed Ex. (4/11/2012 7:10:58 PM)

Actually, if you stick a sensor on it, you should see most if not all of everything.

There are disguised freighters in the real world...ships hiding sophisticated electronics and posing as fishing vessels, etc. Why not in the DW universe?



tjhkkr -> RE: Spying on enemy planets with Fed Ex. (4/11/2012 7:26:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ASHBERY76
I propose a change to the present system where freighters and explorer ships can see the whole composition of enemy forces in a system.I very much doubt you local fed ex knows what your exact national army numbers are.Spying should be used for this purpose.


But then spy freighters would be kind of cool... :) I mean REAL ones that you take a hit in popularity if they are caught!



ASHBERY76 -> RE: Spying on enemy planets with Fed Ex. (4/11/2012 11:19:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tjhkkr

quote:

ORIGINAL: ASHBERY76
I propose a change to the present system where freighters and explorer ships can see the whole composition of enemy forces in a system.I very much doubt you local fed ex knows what your exact national army numbers are.Spying should be used for this purpose.


But then spy freighters would be kind of cool... :) I mean REAL ones that you take a hit in popularity if they are caught!



That stuff would be great but more like an expansion pack feature.

I would like to see an estimated army size on each alien planet with variables included based on trade amount,and ambassador present.Only agent work would get proper force levels.Simple and easy to implement.



jpwrunyan -> RE: Spying on enemy planets with Fed Ex. (4/12/2012 3:24:15 AM)

They can see uncloaked ships, etc in the same system they are in using standard sensors. You have the spy option to steal full military ops map regardless of sensor proximity, cloak, etc which reveals everything.

Current system is fine, I say.



ASHBERY76 -> RE: Spying on enemy planets with Fed Ex. (4/12/2012 11:48:03 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jpwrunyan

They can see uncloaked ships, etc in the same system they are in using standard sensors. You have the spy option to steal full military ops map regardless of sensor proximity, cloak, etc which reveals everything.

Current system is fine, I say.


No, you do not need sensors to see other ships in a system.My main beef is free FedEx army recon anyway.



KnighHawk -> RE: Spying on enemy planets with Fed Ex. (4/13/2012 11:03:24 AM)

My 2 cents  - Leave it alone for all the reasons already mentioned by Litjan,feelotraveller and Shark, not to mention there is already enough that needs fixing in this game at present.



ASHBERY76 -> RE: Spying on enemy planets with Fed Ex. (4/13/2012 11:40:53 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: KnighHawk

My 2 cents  - Leave it alone for all the reasons already mentioned by Litjan,feelotraveller and Shark, not to mention there is already enough that needs fixing in this game at present.


Yep in DW lore it makes sence that you need to research trace scanners to know what is on a enemy freighter but that same freighter can scan a whole planets armed forces and system ships with his eyeballs.[:D]



KnighHawk -> RE: Spying on enemy planets with Fed Ex. (4/13/2012 12:00:49 PM)

No need to repeat yourself, if it was was some sort of justification you were looking for in that regard I believe feelotraveller already addressed that point, at least as it applies to ship detection.  It is a game after all, some suspension of disbelief may be required. [:)]






Shark7 -> RE: Spying on enemy planets with Fed Ex. (4/13/2012 2:43:21 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ASHBERY76

quote:

ORIGINAL: KnighHawk

My 2 cents  - Leave it alone for all the reasons already mentioned by Litjan,feelotraveller and Shark, not to mention there is already enough that needs fixing in this game at present.


Yep in DW lore it makes sence that you need to research trace scanners to know what is on a enemy freighter but that same freighter can scan a whole planets armed forces and system ships with his eyeballs.[:D]


Well, the Eyeball Mk I is still the most reliable sensor ever created. Just sayin'. [;)]



jpwrunyan -> RE: Spying on enemy planets with Fed Ex. (4/15/2012 2:04:16 PM)

By "normal sensors" I mean the sensors that are assumed to be on the ship so that it can, you know, fly through space and still know how not to crash into planets, asteroids, and those ships that you get to see in the enemy systems when your ship is there. Take the fog of war, all a soldier needs is eye balls to take out the fog of war. In space you need eyeballs and a window on your ship. I assume windows, like "standard sensors", come on each ship. Its bad enough I have to add life support components, thankflly the game doesnt make you add obvious stuff like windows, rudementary sensors, and an ice machine. Most importantly, i play securians because obviously their ships have a disco ball standard.



jpwrunyan -> RE: Spying on enemy planets with Fed Ex. (4/15/2012 2:21:33 PM)

On second thought, I can see ashbury's point in regards to private sector ships providing the player's government with intelligence information. They are a private entity. As am I when I go overseas. But I dont tell Barack Obama anything about the airport security in Madrid. Of course, if I were attacked I might, so even from the private vs government point of view there is an exception.
Note, i still believe we dont need any new hardware just so that ships can see what is in a system. Perhaps ship scanners should be required to guage troop strength. But if so it better tell me clearly the troop count and strength. This bar of brown that is currently displayed is useless.



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