Problems with classic APS (Full Version)

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tyrion22 -> Problems with classic APS (5/9/2012 6:59:55 AM)

When playing with the option "classic APS" I am not able to activate more than one squad during a turn. Even after it has 0 AP left, I can't select another squad.

Also, I have the impression that even though you can turn on classic AP, there is no opportunity action or CAP action like in the board game. It seems you can only give CAPs to the squad that is activated. Is this correct? That kinda beats the purpose of having classic APS in the first place, since the only ones who are going to use it are the ones who want the same rules as in the board game. Opportunity action isn't necessary when playing with persistent APS of course, but it is an absolute necessity when playing with classic APS. Opportunity actions and CAP actions are what makes classic APS work in the board game. Yes, you can only activate one squad at a time, but there are three ways of activating other squads, although at a cost: Opportunity action, CAP action or card action. Of these three it seems to me that the computer game only has implemented card actions. So if you want to react with another squad than the one that is activated, you need to have a card available. Or am I missing something?



ioticus -> RE: Problems with classic APS (5/9/2012 7:25:22 AM)

You need to hit escape to deselect your unit so you can activate another unit. This is to prevent you from accidentally spending your unit. I agree with you that they should implement opportunity and command actions. I only play in classic AP mode because I feel it makes my decisions more tense and interesting. Because they left out the other 2 actions, the game is not as interesting or engaging as the board game because there are less meaningful decisions to make. It feels like 1 step forward and 3 steps back. My other problem with the game is the AI is very weak. I've yet to lose against it and I usually win by large margins. I'm not surprised by this but it's always disappointing when it happens to a game you were looking forward to. Other than those problems I like the game and think it will be fun in multiplayer.



Bison36 -> RE: Problems with classic APS (5/9/2012 7:37:55 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ioticus

I only play in classic AP mode because I feel it makes my decisions more tense and interesting. Because they left out the other 2 actions, the game is not as interesting or engaging as the board game because there are less meaningful decisions to make.


What are the 2 actions?



Erik Rutins -> RE: Problems with classic APS (5/9/2012 7:39:53 AM)

Hi Oivind22,

quote:

ORIGINAL: oivind22
When playing with the option "classic APS" I am not able to activate more than one squad during a turn. Even after it has 0 AP left, I can't select another squad.


This option was a late addition, so the readme explains that when in this mode you need to use the Escape key to deselect units. This is to avoid accidentally deselecting a unit.

quote:

Also, I have the impression that even though you can turn on classic AP, there is no opportunity action or CAP action like in the board game. It seems you can only give CAPs to the squad that is activated. Is this correct?


That's correct, we weren't able to implement those at the last minute, but we plan to have the full system in place in time for the first expansion (and apply it to this release in an update at that time).

quote:

That kinda beats the purpose of having classic APS in the first place, since the only ones who are going to use it are the ones who want the same rules as in the board game.


Unfortunately this is the best solution we could come up with once we received the feedback pre-release that customers wanted a non-persistent AP option. I realize there's more to do, but we though it would be better to have this option than to not have it at all until the full system is implemented.

quote:

Opportunity action isn't necessary when playing with persistent APS of course, but it is an absolute necessity when playing with classic APS. Opportunity actions and CAP actions are what makes classic APS work in the board game. Yes, you can only activate one squad at a time, but there are three ways of activating other squads, although at a cost: Opportunity action, CAP action or card action. Of these three it seems to me that the computer game only has implemented card actions. So if you want to react with another squad than the one that is activated, you need to have a card available. Or am I missing something?


We've played the board game quite a lot as well and agree that the full system needs to be there as an option, but that was not possible for release. The Persistent AP system was created for the PC game after many discussions with Uwe in which we all thought it made for a better game given the capabilities of the computer. Since the AP system connects to so many parts of the game, changing it late in development by trying to implement all aspects of the "Classic" AP system could have broken most of the game and resulted in months of additional development time. We could not do that, but we have committed to implementing the non-persistent "Classic" AP system with all actions in full in time for the first expansion.

Regards,

- Erik



ioticus -> RE: Problems with classic APS (5/9/2012 7:43:35 AM)

That's great to hear you will be implementing the full classic AP system, Erik.



Erik Rutins -> RE: Problems with classic APS (5/9/2012 7:44:00 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ioticus
My other problem with the game is the AI is very weak. I've yet to lose against it and I usually win by large margins. I'm not surprised by this but it's always disappointing when it happens to a game you were looking forward to. Other than those problems I like the game and think it will be fun in multiplayer.


I should note that the AI is designed and balanced for the Persistent AP option. It is a bit less capable when using the Non-Persistent AP option. We'll address that once the rest of the "Classic" AP system is implemented.

In addition, it's worth noting that a veteran COH gamer who can beat other COH players will have a much easier time against the AI than a new player. We found this during testing as well, where the AI could easily beat players who had not yet mastered COH, but had a much harder time against COH veterans. The multiplayer system is ready for you as well! Once you've played through the firefights and are regularly beating the AI, be sure to give multiplayer a try, it's very easy to use.

Regards,

- Erik



ioticus -> RE: Problems with classic APS (5/9/2012 7:44:39 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bison36


quote:

ORIGINAL: ioticus

I only play in classic AP mode because I feel it makes my decisions more tense and interesting. Because they left out the other 2 actions, the game is not as interesting or engaging as the board game because there are less meaningful decisions to make.


What are the 2 actions?


I'm referring to opportunity and command actions.



tyrion22 -> RE: Problems with classic APS (5/9/2012 7:58:46 AM)

I deleted this post, so as not to sound so negative when my question has been answered. [;)]



tyrion22 -> RE: Problems with classic APS (5/9/2012 8:01:49 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

quote:

Also, I have the impression that even though you can turn on classic AP, there is no opportunity action or CAP action like in the board game. It seems you can only give CAPs to the squad that is activated. Is this correct?


That's correct, we weren't able to implement those at the last minute, but we plan to have the full system in place in time for the first expansion (and apply it to this release in an update at that time).



Ok, forget my last post, it was written before I read this. I'm happy with this answer, so I'll stop being negative. [:)]



tyrion22 -> RE: Problems with classic APS (5/9/2012 8:07:46 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ioticus

You need to hit escape to deselect your unit so you can activate another unit. This is to prevent you from accidentally spending your unit.



Thanks for the tip. [:)]



chemkid -> RE: Problems with classic APS (2/17/2014 1:15:57 PM)

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Crender -> RE: Problems with classic APS (2/19/2014 4:11:00 PM)

Yes, I have just come back to this game having previously played all scenarios with Persistent APS. Now playing Classic APS and the AI does not seem to know what to do. Is the AI still programmed for Persistent APS? Is there any point at all playing in Classic APS mode against the AI or is only multiplayer possible?



Crender -> RE: Problems with classic APS (2/22/2014 10:16:33 AM)

OK so I tried The Gap with Classic APS and Expert difficulty and got hammered by the AI. Just ramping up the difficulty level gives a good game against the AI in Classic mode.



chemkid -> RE: Problems with classic APS (2/22/2014 2:40:02 PM)

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e_barkmann -> RE: Problems with classic APS (3/7/2014 9:24:28 PM)

quote:

Is there any point at all playing in Classic APS mode against the AI or is only multiplayer possible?


The ai has no programming of the classic AP system built in, so it's going to be a very poor opponent if you want to play it that way.

Suggest you play multiplayer with Classic APs if you want to start getting closer to the experience of COH as the original developer of the game intended (and wrote the scenarios for).



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