Soviet Evacuations (Full Version)

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hfarrish -> Soviet Evacuations (5/20/2012 3:04:07 AM)


I think I know the answer to this, but just wanted to get the community's input - is there any advantage to evacuating more than 1 of a weapons (i.e. tanks, planes, etc.) factory? I have a vague recollection that if you can evacuate more you may be able to produce more at the end of the day, but when you are under heavy pressure is there really any valid reason to evac more than 1 of a weapons factory?

Input appreciated...

Hugh



Tarhunnas -> RE: Soviet Evacuations (5/20/2012 5:18:36 AM)

I will do that if I am under really heavy pressure. Otherwise it depends on the type of item being produced. I try to save all veichle production and a majority of tank production. Aircraft i try for half but will settle for less.

Even though they will eventually grow back, the more you get out the more production you will get the sooner.



Aurelian -> RE: Soviet Evacuations (5/20/2012 5:43:01 AM)

Look at the dates they come on line too.

For example, I only move two of the IL-10 factories (two locatons of 23 each) as they don't start until 1945.

They'll be back to 23 each long before then.



76mm -> RE: Soviet Evacuations (5/20/2012 7:02:33 AM)

Isn't vehicle production a "unit" exercise like arm points? I just moved half of the vehicle points out of a city, and the other half still seem to be there.



cpt flam -> RE: Soviet Evacuations (5/20/2012 7:26:01 AM)

same question not being cnfident
will the factory expand before product
i don't think so, otherwise those beginning to product in 45 would be at full effectivness



Tarhunnas -> RE: Soviet Evacuations (5/20/2012 7:52:41 AM)

Well, still, aircraft starting to produce in 1945 doesn't seem like the first priority in 1941...

@76mm Yes you are right, veichle is same as ARM. What I meant is I try to bring all of them out, as trucks will be a limiting factor in driving the Germans back in 42 and 43.



Aurelian -> RE: Soviet Evacuations (5/20/2012 6:18:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cpt flam

same question not being cnfident
will the factory expand before product
i don't think so, otherwise those beginning to product in 45 would be at full effectivness


They are just like any other factory, so they do.




hfarrish -> RE: Soviet Evacuations (5/20/2012 11:33:43 PM)


I was about to post this same question...so I take it the conclusion of the group is that evacuating more than 1 is nice if you have the luxury, but not something to agonize over? In other words, if you are stretched and every +1 you evacuate over the minimum limits your ability to evac armament points, you do the minimum?

And yes, vehicles are like armaments and like Tarhunnas I always try to get all of them out given the late war truck shortage.



hfarrish -> RE: Soviet Evacuations (5/20/2012 11:35:26 PM)


Also - is there a post on the forum somewhere about factories you definitely should not waste time/rail evaccing? I know BA-10s and MiG-3s are not necessary, and that Heavy Industry should only go to the extent you have a major rail surplus...anything else?



76mm -> RE: Soviet Evacuations (5/21/2012 3:52:24 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: hfarrish
...so I take it the conclusion of the group is that evacuating more than 1 is nice if you have the luxury, but not something to agonize over? In other words, if you are stretched and every +1 you evacuate over the minimum limits your ability to evac armament points, you do the minimum


I'm not sure it I'd put it like that... Personally, for anything worth evacuating, I try to evacuate at least 50%, if you only evac 1 unit, it might not reach full production for a long long time. Unless I'd already lost lots of arm points, I'd sacrifice a few of those to get out more tank factory units.

While getting out 1 unit is far better than getting out nothing, I would try very hard to get out more than that (here I'm especially talking about the tank factories).



Aurelian -> RE: Soviet Evacuations (5/21/2012 4:04:11 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: hfarrish


Also - is there a post on the forum somewhere about factories you definitely should not waste time/rail evaccing? I know BA-10s and MiG-3s are not necessary, and that Heavy Industry should only go to the extent you have a major rail surplus...anything else?


Klydon came up with a list of ones that shut down:

Kharkov: Su-2 (shut down 12/41)
Moscow: Mig 3 (shut down 12/41)
Gorky: Lagg 3 (shut down 7/42)
Saratov: Lagg 3 (shut down 7/42)
Taganrog: Lagg 3 (shut down 7/42)
Leningrad: Yak 6 (shut down 7/43)

Vehicles:

Leningrad: BA-10 Armored car (shut down 9/41)
Gorky: ZiS30 (shut down 10/41)
Kulebaki: BA-20 Armored car (shut down 5/42)
Gorky: T70 (shut down 12/43)
Kirov: T70 (shut down 12/43)



Tarhunnas -> RE: Soviet Evacuations (5/21/2012 6:01:01 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: 76mm


quote:

ORIGINAL: hfarrish
...so I take it the conclusion of the group is that evacuating more than 1 is nice if you have the luxury, but not something to agonize over? In other words, if you are stretched and every +1 you evacuate over the minimum limits your ability to evac armament points, you do the minimum


I'm not sure it I'd put it like that... Personally, for anything worth evacuating, I try to evacuate at least 50%, if you only evac 1 unit, it might not reach full production for a long long time. Unless I'd already lost lots of arm points, I'd sacrifice a few of those to get out more tank factory units.

While getting out 1 unit is far better than getting out nothing, I would try very hard to get out more than that (here I'm especially talking about the tank factories).


+1. And many factories are much cheaper in terms of rail capacity than ARM.



Tarhunnas -> RE: Soviet Evacuations (5/21/2012 6:06:33 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurelian

quote:

ORIGINAL: hfarrish


Also - is there a post on the forum somewhere about factories you definitely should not waste time/rail evaccing? I know BA-10s and MiG-3s are not necessary, and that Heavy Industry should only go to the extent you have a major rail surplus...anything else?


Klydon came up with a list of ones that shut down:

Kharkov: Su-2 (shut down 12/41)
Moscow: Mig 3 (shut down 12/41)
Gorky: Lagg 3 (shut down 7/42)
Saratov: Lagg 3 (shut down 7/42)
Taganrog: Lagg 3 (shut down 7/42)
Leningrad: Yak 6 (shut down 7/43)

Vehicles:

Leningrad: BA-10 Armored car (shut down 9/41)
Gorky: ZiS30 (shut down 10/41)
Kulebaki: BA-20 Armored car (shut down 5/42)
Gorky: T70 (shut down 12/43)
Kirov: T70 (shut down 12/43)


Excellent! Does anyone have a list of those starting production late?



Aurelian -> RE: Soviet Evacuations (5/21/2012 7:04:43 AM)

I just compiled this. No paticular order, (as I found them.)

But they are all on the map on 6/41. The dates are when they start working.

Yak-7A 12/41

Pe-2R 8/41

Pe-3 8/41

IL-10 1/45

LaGG-3 29 Series 8/42

T-60 M1941 10/41

Yak-3 5/44

BA-64 4/42

La-5 5/42

La-5FN 4/43

T-70 M1942 3/42

ZiS-30 9/41

GAZ-AA-37 1/42

OT-34 7/42

SU-122 12/42

T-34 M1942 7/42

SU-152 4/43

ISU-122 4/44

KV-85 9/43



Tarhunnas -> RE: Soviet Evacuations (5/21/2012 7:41:37 AM)

Thanks!

Edit: Now per location:

Factories starting production:

Moscow: Yak-7A 12/41
Moscow: Pe-2R 8/41
Moscow: Pe-3 8/41
Moscow: IL-10 1/45

Voronezh: IL-10 1/45

Taganrog: LaGG-3 29 Series 8/42

Saratov: Yak-3 5/44

Gorky: T-70 M1942 3/42
Gorky: ZiS-30 9/41
Gorky: GAZ-AA-37 1/42
Gorky: T-60 M1941 10/41
Gorky: OT-34 7/42
Gorky: BA-64 4/42

Gorkyi: La-5 5/42
Gorkiy: La-5FN 4/43

Tambov: GAZ-AA-37 1/42

Tbilisi: Yak-3 5/44

Kulebaki: BA-64 4/42

Stalingrad: T-60 M1941 10/41

Kirov: T-70 M1942 3/42

Semenov: La-5 5/42
Semenov: La-5FN 4/43

Sverdlovsk: SU-122 12/42

Chelyabinsk: T-34 M1942 7/42
Chelyabinsk: SU-152 4/43
Chelyabinsk: ISU-122 4/44
Chelyabinsk: KV-85 9/43

We should put this in the Wiki, but I can't edit that.



Manstein63 -> RE: Soviet Evacuations (5/21/2012 12:46:03 PM)

I thought that the T70 factories upgraded to T34 or SU76 & with some of those factories (i.e. Gorky) if they need to be evacuated then you are in serious trouble
Manstein63



vlcz -> RE: Soviet Evacuations (5/21/2012 3:22:38 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tarhunnas

We should put this in the Wiki, but I can't edit that.


+1 , and the Soviet Unit Creation List from http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2882717



hfarrish -> RE: Soviet Evacuations (5/21/2012 4:24:44 PM)


Nice work guys, thanks for the lists...very helpful as I struggle around Turn 12 to pick which things to let go.



Tarhunnas -> RE: Soviet Evacuations (5/21/2012 5:13:08 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Manstein63

I thought that the T70 factories upgraded to T34 or SU76 & with some of those factories (i.e. Gorky) if they need to be evacuated then you are in serious trouble
Manstein63


If the enemy gets to Gorky in 1941, you are indeed in serious trouble! [:-]



Aurelian -> RE: Soviet Evacuations (5/21/2012 9:52:43 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tarhunnas


quote:

ORIGINAL: Manstein63

I thought that the T70 factories upgraded to T34 or SU76 & with some of those factories (i.e. Gorky) if they need to be evacuated then you are in serious trouble
Manstein63


If the enemy gets to Gorky in 1941, you are indeed in serious trouble! [:-]


And you're in real trouble if he ever gets to Chelyabinsk [:)]



Aurelian -> RE: Soviet Evacuations (5/21/2012 10:00:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Manstein63

I thought that the T70 factories upgraded to T34 or SU76 & with some of those factories (i.e. Gorky) if they need to be evacuated then you are in serious trouble
Manstein63


The T-40 --->T-60--->SU-76---> SU-76M.

The T-50--->T-34 M1942---->T-34/85 M1944.

The T-70 factories don't upgrade.

I sense another list coming...:)



Aurelian -> RE: Soviet Evacuations (5/21/2012 10:41:42 PM)

This is a list of the working air/ground factories at the 41-45 campaign start and what they become, or not.

Fighter Bomber

MiG-3--->None

Yak-1--->Yak-1B (8/42)--->Yak-3 (5/44)

LaGG-3--->None

Tactical Bomber

Su-2--->None

IL-2--->IL-2M (10/42)--->IL-2M3 (2/43)

U2-VS--->None

Level Bomber

Pe-2--->None

IL-4--->None

Pe-8--->None

Recon

U-2--->None

Transport

U-2--->None

Li-2--->None

Light Tank

T-50--->T-34 M1942 (7/42)--->T-34/85 (2/44)

Medium Tank

T-34 M1941--->T-34 M1942 (7/42)---T-34/85 (2/44)

Heavy Tank

KV-1 M1941--->KV-1s (8/42)--->IS-1 M1943 (10/43)--->IS-2 M1943 (12/43)--->IS-2 M 1944 (7/44)--->IS-3 M1945 (5/45)

DD Tank

T-40 M1941--->T-60 M1941 (10/41)---SU-76 (12/42)--->SU-76M (5/43)

Cavalry Tank

BT-7M M1939--->None

Armored Car

BA-10--->None

BA-20--->None

SP AAMG

GAZ_AAMG--->GAZ-AA-37 (1/42)



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