RE: The Great Patriotic AAR II (Full Version)

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Michael T -> RE: The Great Patriotic AAR II (6/9/2012 11:01:59 PM)

Don't try to dodge it gids. You have been insinuating that I am a cheat for some time. It's not acceptable. I will not retract. You think that because I practice its unfair to my opponents. Thats idiotic. Is your favorite football team a bunch of cheats because they practice? Come on. If you want to put up ridiculous remarks and label me a cheat you are going to get some flak. Pull your head in.



glvaca -> RE: The Great Patriotic AAR II (6/9/2012 11:08:15 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Michael T

It's a fact I have never lost a game as Soviet (people conveiniantly forget that) And under the current set of rules I never will. I will be playing Soviet next. I challenge any player out there who thinks he can beat me as Soviet under the Stock rules. HELLOOOO!!! Where are you?

No house rules.
Server game.
Choose your weather system. Random or not.

Apparently under these stock conditions the poor Soviets still face an uphill battle. PROVE IT!

Gids. I really don't want to bother with your rubbish but I can't put up with it any longer.

Does your mind comprehend that ANY serious player, performer, entertainer or whatever spends FAR more time practicing their craft than actually playing or performing it?

Do you need me to cite examples for you?

You are accusing me of cheating because I practice?

You are an idiot.



Here I am. Unfortunately I don't have time right now but if you can wait a couple of weeks I'll play.
House rules:
Non-random weather
No bombing HQ's unless stacked with combat unit.
Max. 3 airbase attacks after first turn.
No landings West of Sevastopol until 1943.




Michael T -> RE: The Great Patriotic AAR II (6/9/2012 11:18:27 PM)

Oh.. so we need house rules. Well I am astonished. After reading some of the Soviet's crew posts I thought the stock game was still a walk over for Germany.

But sure glvaca I can wait a few weeks. I only ask two things. That is we confirm with Joel that there is not some game changing patch about to come out that makes HI suddenly worth evacuating. Because that would be a game changer, for the better I might add.

2nd we wait for the patch that stops the air base mega fuel harvest I uncovered OR you give a guarantee you won't abuse it.

But other than that yes bring it on. I will PM you with my email so we can stay in touch till game day. I look forward to it.



gids -> RE: The Great Patriotic AAR II (6/9/2012 11:47:12 PM)

If i wanted to call you a cheater i would have done so, dont worry about that it,and i insinuate nothing ,i merely said you used the game mechanics to your advantage,is that bad ? i dont know... and i wouldnt care less if you retract or what you think is idiotic ,you seem to be pretty full of yourself and  loaded with opinions .....i dont call it a cheat because its not simply as that,i didnt say its wrong nor did i say anything else,so dont put words on here i didnt say ,and if you feel like i said your a cheater well thats your problem not mine and as far as labeling goes ;i dont do that i rather leave that to people who seem to be good at it ,like yourself,so let that be the end of this ...here it comes..."idiotic "discussion



Ron -> RE: The Great Patriotic AAR II (6/10/2012 12:05:06 AM)

Ok, I think that last post confirms it so I will second the motion - gids, you are an idiot. However, like all idiots it is plainly useless to point that out, carry on my man.



gids -> RE: The Great Patriotic AAR II (6/10/2012 12:21:56 AM)

his brother i guess



Farfarer61 -> RE: The Great Patriotic AAR II (6/10/2012 1:03:05 AM)

Didn't we just learn that Soviet von Robinsky in 1941 is perfectly sound, so Axis players I (and I'm one) should stop whining about it forever?

Random weather rocks, deal with it, it is simply more fun for everyone.

You don't need muling to win. You try to win in 1942 instead of 1941, and I ain't going to tell you how. A very old post by Flav said "1941 is foreplay" - how true.

Paras - well I did super long range drops as Sov and decided they were cheese, ruining my own fun by ruining games, and stopped, I haven't bombed an Axis airbase in ages - just silly and against fun; for both players. I will do unlimited bomb attacks as Sov, particulary to break pockets, as this is a wholly permissable attempt to save hundreds of thousands of troops which the game reduces to Smurfs as soon as the phone lines to STAVKA are cut.



Michael T -> RE: The Great Patriotic AAR II (6/10/2012 2:19:52 AM)

Look gids. Whether you intended to or not, if you start using the word 'cheat', in any context that links it to me or anyone they are going to get their heckles up. Lets just forget it then. I am sorry for the insult.




Aurelian -> RE: The Great Patriotic AAR II (6/10/2012 2:39:19 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: glvaca


quote:

ORIGINAL: Michael T

It's a fact I have never lost a game as Soviet (people conveiniantly forget that) And under the current set of rules I never will. I will be playing Soviet next. I challenge any player out there who thinks he can beat me as Soviet under the Stock rules. HELLOOOO!!! Where are you?

No house rules.
Server game.
Choose your weather system. Random or not.

Apparently under these stock conditions the poor Soviets still face an uphill battle. PROVE IT!

Gids. I really don't want to bother with your rubbish but I can't put up with it any longer.

Does your mind comprehend that ANY serious player, performer, entertainer or whatever spends FAR more time practicing their craft than actually playing or performing it?

Do you need me to cite examples for you?

You are accusing me of cheating because I practice?

You are an idiot.



Here I am. Unfortunately I don't have time right now but if you can wait a couple of weeks I'll play.
House rules:
Non-random weather
No bombing HQ's unless stacked with combat unit.
Max. 3 airbase attacks after first turn.
No landings West of Sevastopol until 1943.




Make sure you use the airbase fuel thing. It's only fair as it will be against someone who said he would use muling in all its forms. Use rule exploits against the exploiter.



KamilS -> RE: The Great Patriotic AAR II (6/10/2012 3:13:36 AM)

I see that Michael T pays the price for being on the top [;)]



Aurelian -> RE: The Great Patriotic AAR II (6/10/2012 5:16:11 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kamil

I see that Michael T pays the price for being on the top [;)]


Just crafting rules to his advantage :)



Encircled -> RE: The Great Patriotic AAR II (6/10/2012 7:09:42 AM)

Why don't we just a have a list of all the "exploits" available on both sides, have a game with none of them allowed, and see where we go?

Or is that just too simple?




glvaca -> RE: The Great Patriotic AAR II (6/10/2012 7:29:44 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Michael T

Oh.. so we need house rules. Well I am astonished. After reading some of the Soviet's crew posts I thought the stock game was still a walk over for Germany.

But sure glvaca I can wait a few weeks. I only ask two things. That is we confirm with Joel that there is not some game changing patch about to come out that makes HI suddenly worth evacuating. Because that would be a game changer, for the better I might add.

2nd we wait for the patch that stops the air base mega fuel harvest I uncovered OR you give a guarantee you won't abuse it.

But other than that yes bring it on. I will PM you with my email so we can stay in touch till game day. I look forward to it.


Well, I'm not part of any "crew" [;)]
These are the standard house rules I play with either side.
No, I'll not use the air base mega supply thing. I'll leave it up to you whether you want to use para drops to break pockets.
As do I [:)]



glvaca -> RE: The Great Patriotic AAR II (6/10/2012 7:31:58 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Encircled

Why don't we just a have a list of all the "exploits" available on both sides, have a game with none of them allowed, and see where we go?

Or is that just too simple?




Yes, that would be too simple [;)]
Besides, what is an exploit for some is perfectly acceptable for others. We'd never agree on a list anyway [:'(]



Callistrid -> RE: The Great Patriotic AAR II (6/10/2012 8:02:45 AM)

Well, when I'm plaing with germans, never use any type of muleing, or other tricks, because its unfair.
Most of my units remain on their original HQ, only I do the OOB optimalization.

What Michael T did on T07-08 was incredible for me, although I am an experienced player.



Michael T -> RE: The Great Patriotic AAR II (6/10/2012 8:26:25 AM)

FWIW glvaca I didn't put you in that crew. I won't use para's to break pockets as I think it sucks. I would demand the same from a Soviet if I were German.



Encircled -> RE: The Great Patriotic AAR II (6/10/2012 10:33:41 AM)

You'd better list all the things that the soviets are not allowed to do then.

Then at least the game can be played with both sides aware of what is and isn't allowed.



76mm -> RE: The Great Patriotic AAR II (6/10/2012 12:17:14 PM)

I don't agree at al with the people that say a run away strategy is a winner for the Sovs. All it does is defer defeat from 1941 until some later date, because you end up too far east to reach Berlin in time to win. As someone pointed out, we've seen zero AARs where the Sovs make it to Berlin by may 45



Michael T -> RE: The Great Patriotic AAR II (6/10/2012 12:31:44 PM)

Just like we have seen zero Germans who have taken 260 or 290 points.



76mm -> RE: The Great Patriotic AAR II (6/10/2012 1:18:31 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Michael T
Just like we have seen zero Germans who have taken 260 or 290 points.


Heh, nice straw man argument; that's not a valid comparison, for a couple of reasons:

1) games in which the Germans would get 260 much less 290 points end in surrender long before they reach that point (as you should know); and

2) I am talking about winning the game, an auto-win is winning the WAR, which sorry to all the German fanboys out there, should just not happen very often. I don't know how exactly it works under the new alt-VP scenario, but holding the Sovs from Berlin till August (if not earlier) should be a German win in the GAME.



Apollo11 -> RE: The Great Patriotic AAR II (6/10/2012 1:28:58 PM)

Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

"Tarhunnas", how much time and effort (i.e. battles) did yor opponent "Michael T" spend on dealing with pockets he made?


Shameless BUMP! [:D]


Frederik and Michael - can you please answer?


Leo "Apollo11"



Tarhunnas -> RE: The Great Patriotic AAR II (6/10/2012 2:23:50 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

"Tarhunnas", how much time and effort (i.e. battles) did yor opponent "Michael T" spend on dealing with pockets he made?


Shameless BUMP! [:D]


Frederik and Michael - can you please answer?



Sorry for not answering. I didn't see you question until now. A have not read the thread very closely since it turned sort of acrimonius.

He generally only spent so much effort as he had to on the pockets, generally bypassing them and leaving minimum garrisons around them.



Apollo11 -> RE: The Great Patriotic AAR II (6/10/2012 2:55:00 PM)

Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tarhunnas

quote:

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

quote:

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

"Tarhunnas", how much time and effort (i.e. battles) did yor opponent "Michael T" spend on dealing with pockets he made?


Shameless BUMP! [:D]


Frederik and Michael - can you please answer?


Sorry for not answering. I didn't see you question until now. A have not read the thread very closely since it turned sort of acrimonius.

He generally only spent so much effort as he had to on the pockets, generally bypassing them and leaving minimum garrisons around them.


RGR and thanks for info Frederik!

So... the pockets just died by themselves (i.e. by being close to minimum enemy garrison)...


Leo "Apollo11"



Tarhunnas -> RE: The Great Patriotic AAR II (6/10/2012 2:59:59 PM)

No, they did not die by themsleves AFIK, but he did often wait for a while until eliminating them.



Apollo11 -> RE: The Great Patriotic AAR II (6/10/2012 3:11:00 PM)

Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tarhunnas

No, they did not die by themsleves AFIK, but he did often wait for a while until eliminating them.


OK... but his casualties were light and no real strong force was needed for their elimination?


Leo "Apollo11"



Tarhunnas -> RE: The Great Patriotic AAR II (6/10/2012 3:24:25 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tarhunnas

No, they did not die by themsleves AFIK, but he did often wait for a while until eliminating them.


OK... but his casualties were light and no real strong force was needed for their elimination?


Leo "Apollo11"


Can't really tell, I didn't study his pocket eliminations in detail. Better ask Michael T.



Encircled -> RE: The Great Patriotic AAR II (6/10/2012 3:40:18 PM)

You don't need strong forces for pocket elimination in '41

Axis Allies can easily do it



TulliusDetritus -> RE: The Great Patriotic AAR II (6/10/2012 4:12:28 PM)

Michael, if you can bother to reply this -I think you haven't mentioned this:

Tarhunnas has fought forward, as you requested, so do you think what happened on this game is normal or not? If not, what's in your opinion the problem here?



Michael T -> RE: The Great Patriotic AAR II (6/11/2012 12:20:34 AM)

Thanks for question TD, rather than the crap I keep getting from others. I will answer in due course. Bit busy with a 8 month old baby right now.

Apollo. Isolated units only seem to surrender if they are broken or a very long way from the front. I tend to just keep going forward once a pocket is secure. Eliminating the pocket with infantry coming up from the rear. Generally with hasties. Mostly the Sov's surrender with the first shot if you apply enough force. But the odd unit sometimes gives you a merry old chase. The main rule of the thumb is economy of force. Once a pocket is secure the primary goal is to secure the next one rather than the elimination of any isolated units. Mech are very rarely used for pocket elimination.



mmarquo -> RE: The Great Patriotic AAR II (6/11/2012 5:17:40 AM)

Michael T has taught the programmers much about their own game; we all owe him a debt of gratitude. Hopefully some of us will still be around to experience WITE2; btw, will the owners of WITE1 get a free upgrade to WITE2 when it is released?

Hey Mike, I just played the first 10 moves of EFS AGC; any tips about logistics for that game???

Marquo [:)]



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