What would you do?

What would you do? (Full Version)

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moz -> What would you do? (12/4/2002 3:14:08 AM)
Ok guys, my first mission in my WW2 campaign was tough but we got it done. Playing a Combat Group supported by 2 sections of Shermans, a company of Mechanised Infantry, a company of Engineers, some recon elements (M-20's)and some heavy arty (105mm's) plus bits and pieces (90mm flak guns and other bits). Our first battle went well - we had to hold two hills up near the front in a defensive action - we were outnumbered but the terrain was with us, we were entrenched, and despite heavy losses we held the line, breaking the enemies morale just before our first line was overrun - the AT-guns and 90mm's were ready to blast the enemy if he broke our first line of entrenched infantry, Shermans and engineers. Hurray for heavy arty!! Now we are understrength, and we need to assault an enemy position. (some seriously reduced infantry - they really took some losses due to the huge amount of enemy assault guns and panzers trying to take the hills). It's a long horizontal map again, with the positional lines in the middle close together. The objectives are in no mans land apart from a major German held position to their rear. Terrain is mixed, but involves forest, hill and a village on our side near an enemy objective. The major enemy position (my main objective) is beyond some forest on a hill half way to their rear. What would you guys do? What formations would you encourage? I have my Shermans back, having spent good points to bring em back to full strength, but my infantry is reduced. Should I lead with recon (obvious) and follow with infantry then recon, then armour, or favour armour then infantry? Should I go with my instincts, and bombard suspected enemy positions, or save my arty for when i spot the enemy? Any tips gladly accepted! I'll be deploying tomorrow evening! :-) Oh PS.... should i deploy as close to the front line (the boundary of possible deployment) or keep my forces further back but starting under cover? (this game is FANTASTICO!! - when i finish this campaign and learn more i am dying to get to PBEM!)

moz -> (12/4/2002 3:22:10 AM)
oh yeah. if there's anyway i can post my turn here while in deployment lemme know and i will. my gut instinct at the moment is to lead with the recon and Shermans, and arty the hell out of anything that turns up, bringing my mech infantry and engineers up in the rear. those half-tracks sure come in handy in defensive battles for scrubbing up German infantry with their .50's on the flanks :-)

Belisarius -> Random yapping as usual.. ;) (12/4/2002 3:45:52 AM)
My gut instinct is that if you're trying to lead an assault on a prepared enemy defense with Shermans, you're gonna end up with lots of scrap metal. Shermans are fragile like rice paper. :p Take the recon and engineers first, they're prime defense-busters. Keep the M4's supporting the infantry. Artillery: depends on how much you got. I'd say don't pound empty terrain, use it for blocking the enemy (ie smoke, and HE when you think some headache fits nicely). He won't move anyway. Mortars are ideal for this. Commit more (and heavy) arty when you spot enemy positions. Assault them with ground pounders immediately after, don't let them get a chance to pull themselves together.

moz -> (12/4/2002 3:56:12 AM)
Hmm.. interesting. Quick reply cos I am being "summoned" downstairs for tea, but theres soem open ground between me and the Hun. Surely infantry (even in M3's) is gonna be torn up even worse than Shermans? I dunno. I'm not at all used to the kind of units I have under my command except to note that armour (even good armour) assaulting prepared infantry positions is kinda doomed, and also that my Sherm's did well against attacking AG's, but only with plenty smoke (from my huge arty bombardments :-) ) Anyway, I shall consider your advice :-) Can't reply til 2moro, but hope more people can give me some hints! Cheers Belisarius! :-D

Capt. Pixel -> Another Yapper (12/4/2002 4:06:52 AM)
I'd disagree about the artillery. If the scenario is short (<15 turns), I'd go ahead a 'Prep' the areas ahead of my advancing forces. I think Rommel called this prophylactic fire. (Funny guy, that Rommel) 100mm+ artillery is also good for identifying minefields as they are revealed when under a barrage. 150mm+ can actually delete some mines in the minefield, but it's not particularly effective in that mode. Used carefully, your arty can pave a nice road for the rest of your forces to advance on. :cool:

Tutty -> (12/4/2002 5:09:22 AM)
I would use alot of smoke to cover my advance, leading with recon and engineers. Don't forget about those pesky mines, they'll get ya every time! One good layer of smoke should cover the advance, but you'll probably have to lay down another blanket to cover any mine-removal opperations.

Irinami -> (12/5/2002 8:08:56 AM)
If you haven't played Tanks at Munda, you need to. It'll teach you why you don't lead with tanks. (Or perhaps rather, how to lead [I]with[/I] them.) I don't know where to start. A battle like this is going to be hard... suck it up. You're going to lose some infantry units outright. If you're like me, it's going to be hard to do, but pick the least experienced units (or the ones with the worst leaders if there are promising leaders in low-experience units) to lead the charge. This may be a tough victory to pull. Consider fighting for a Marginal Victory--a DV might only be possible with the loss of so many of your Arm. assets that it won't pay off. (Guess I sound like an Intel puke a bit.)

rbrunsman -> (12/5/2002 11:56:40 PM)
I suggest you change your mindset about the use of Shermans. I agree with Belisarius that Shermans weren't made for going toe to toe with the Germans. You should use them only to support the attack with your infantry. Use smoke to cover your advance. Bombarding ahead of your advancing infantry has another bonus in that shell holes provide very good cover for your men. Also note that your Shermans have smoke rounds that they can use to shoot right in front of German fixed positions. One round of smoke from them can save the lives of several units worth of men. Good luck. It sounds like a fun scenario.

Tomanbeg -> No Rules, just right! (12/22/2002 11:13:52 PM)
Good Ideas on Assulting prepared positions. A) Pick your spot. Probing for a weakness is ok when you are advancing against a delay, but when assaulting a defend, you need to assume there are no weaknesses and that you will have to make a hole. So plan for that from the start. B) Make your hole. You will need to clear a lane at least wide enough to advance an Infantry platoon abreast. Pick a spot that is as sheltered as possible. By sheltered I mean out of LOS from the rest of the Board. It also has to be in reach of the v-hexes you plan on taking. So you will need to count backwards from you target to make sure you can reach it. Don't count on moving faster then 1/2 your movement allowance per turn. This will build slack into your time table. You will need it. C)Plan ahead. Most defensive belta are rarely more then 300 to 400 meters deep. (6 to 8 hexes). Set a pre-positioned arty request(dime) on the Enemies start line where you will make your break in. Now set the next one 5 hexes deeper into the defense. This will allow you to get .1 arty fire at the point of attack( or you can set your per game baombardment for the first dime and save a request. Set you other dimes on the flanks so you can get .1 smoke fires. Off Board arty lands in a W on it's side pattern, unless you have been turning tubes on and off. Use this . Put your infantry(engineers I hope), next to the break in point and have them follow your barrage thru the defensive belt. When they close up to the barrage, moving 1 hex per turn of course, shift the barrage to the next dime. use your flanking dimes to keep a column of smoke on each side of your hole. D) your shermans should stay 2 hexes behind your infantry. Close enough to put mg fire on defenders when they shoot at your Infantry. Since that is inside a 4 hex range, and the enemy should not be shooting until they are a hex in front of your infantry, so right behind or a hex behind should work, If you can't spot the shooter, use area fire. Your recon should be 4 to 6 hexes behind the Shermans. They will just die in the front line, and you will need them once you break thru. As infantry units get shot up and retreat, replace them. If you can avoid it don't move them back up to the front. Put in another unit and let the rallied unit go into reserve. If you hit a real tough spot, it is normally better to button up the platoon where it is and move a new platoon thrugh them to continue the attack. E)Exploit. Once your infantry is gong forward w/o restsiance from the are directly to their front move your armor through them and start suppressing the guys shooting at you from a distance. This is when you want to send your recon out. When planning figure on 3-4 turns per defended hex with riflemen and 2 turns with Engineers. Don't forget that with Engineers you can hold a minefield open and pass tanks thru without actually clearing it. You will want to clear it, but don't let it slow down your armor. And don't be afraid of short rounds. Good Luck and Good Hunting. T.

rbrunsman -> (12/23/2002 12:44:46 AM)
I didn't know Engineers gave your other troops a free pass to go through the mine field they were in. How did you figure that one out? It's not in the Manual.:confused: That's a good thing to know.

Tomanbeg -> (12/23/2002 4:05:56 AM)
Originally posted by rbrunsman [B]I didn't know Engineers gave your other troops a free pass to go through the mine field they were in. How did you figure that one out? It's not in the Manual.:confused: That's a good thing to know. [/B] Not a free pass, but It cuts the chance of hitting a mine way way down. I read it on one of the show and tell sessions from when WaW was getting started. Engineers used to be just guys with flamethrowers. Matrix put in the ability to place booby traps, mines, and the other little goodies. Go to the famous threads forum and do a search. IIRC it was in a thread by Proudfoot(not the hobbit one). T.

Capt. Pixel -> * (12/23/2002 9:04:57 AM)
[QUOTE]Originally posted by rbrunsman [B]I didn't know Engineers gave your other troops a free pass to go through the mine field they were in. How did you figure that one out? It's not in the Manual.:confused: That's a good thing to know. [/B][/QUOTE] Yeah that's interesting. I'll have to check it out. It might make an Engineer/Cavalry breakthrough really interesting.

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